www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The "Unto the Ages of Ages" Use

All the translations of the Byzantine Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Churches use "unto ages of ages" at the end of all doxologies. When the Latin Rite is done in Latin this translation seems more accurate Per omnia saecula saeculorum which is accurately translates "Through all ages of ages." Why does the Byzantine Rite in English use not "unto ages of ages," but rather "now and ever and forever?" I love the "unto ages of ages" translation better, and it is a more accurate translation from the Greek.

The Byzantines simply used the earlier common English rendering. I've seen both used within the same jurisdiction among the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Eastern Catholics

Michael_Thoma, which do you prefer. I prefer "Unto ages of ages."

I've seen both used within the same service

I am one of those who prefer "unto the ages of ages" as it is the literal translation and perfectly understandable.

Who are the "Byzantines"?

We Melkites aren't dogmatic about it, and use both (as do the Ukrainians), but "unto Ages of Ages" captures the eschatological dimension better than "now and ever and forever" (which is merely chronological). However, "unto Aeon of Aeons" is better still, because some things are best left untranslated. It will take some education to explain this to the people.

As to why the Ruthenians prefer "now and ever and forever", I submit they do it precisely because the Orthodox use "unto Ages of Ages".

What I don't understand is how the RCs took "et in saecula saeculorum," and came up with "world without end." (I do know that "saeculum" in Latin can translate as "world," but it clearly doesn't mean that in this case).

I remember learning that prayer as a child, and thinking, "that's not right--I know there's going to be an end of the world!"

I grew up (1960's) in the Methodist Episcopal church using Elizabethean English borrowed from the Book of Common Prayer.

The Gloria Patri which we sang nearly every Sunday concluded
"world without end, Amen, Amen."

And yes, my thoughts were precisely like those of Epiphanius..."but the world IS going to end".

The way that "world without end" is defended is that "world" refers to the the new heaven and earth after the eschaton (sic). This defense is a little weak, but the only explanation I have heard. The Latin word "saecula" can sometimes, in proper context, refer to the temporal world in a perceived endless march of ages, but this usage is extremely rare.

I like the use of the Greek Iονσ, but a great deal of confusion could come if not explained either in the Homily or in an insert in the Liturgical book. "Unto ages of ages" should be used in the Byzantine and Roman Rites to have a unified common English Liturgical Language rendering, but this is my humble opinion. As for using "now and ever and forever" as a way to not be "Orthodox" in the Ruthenians, this is very odd.

"World without end" comes from the first editions of the book of common prayer, circa 1550. It was the anglican protestant influence on translations of the latin church in the english speaking world. The first edition of the douay rheims bible more often uses the word "ages" instead of "world" in it's psalms and canticles.

In some cases the catholic influenced anglicans of the oxford movement who mimiced the tridentine or salisbury liturgies did in fact put "through the ages of ages" in their translations of the doxology type endings of particular prayers. The knott missal (english missal( is one that uses it.

There really is no logical reason for it, other than people tend to hold onto familiar liturgical language thats handed down to them. "through the ages of ages or "even unto ages of ages" is definitely my preference. I have experimented with using "ages of ages" instead of world without end in praying with latin catholics and found no objections. With the promotion by bishops it could easily become the normative ending of the doxology in the entire english speaking world.