www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall The New Evangelization working for...Allah

Islam gaining steam in traditional Catholic bedrocks of Mexico and Ireland.

http://www.ibtimes.com/shamrock-crescent-islam-irelands-fastest-growing-religion-1557033 - FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN IRELAND.

http://voxxi.com/2014/02/17/mexican-catholics-choosing-islam/ - From "Dios" to "Allah."

Harrowing.

These two countries formerly had Constitutions that recognized the Catholic religion and merely tolerated other cults. Since V2's "religious liberty" and the Vatican's pressure on formerly Catholic states like these, this or something similar is the inevitable result (although Mexico's Masonic revolution happened well before V2.) When the Muslims gain voting majorities in former Catholic states, V2's mistaken ideas about religious liberty will be over. Muslims have no qualms about joining church and state.

It seems that after all these centuries that the Muslims have been trying to take over Western Europe, and the many times that they have been pushed back in battle, they will finally succeed by immigration.

I once met an Orthodox priest who was formerly Muslim.

He said that in order to impress Muslims Christians have to be what they once were.

For example, he said that if Christians prayed seven times daily, as was once the norm, this would have an impact on Muslims. In fact, it helped convert him.

Would Christians go into the workplace or schools and ask to have a prayer-room set aside so they could fulfill their prayers every three hours?

Probably not. In fact, Christians would be among the first to say that faith is "in the heart" and "don't make a show of your piety" etc.

How do Christians witness to their Faith nowadays? Yet, such practices that contribute to the building up of community is what the human spirit longs for, including ascetical exercises.

If the Church wishes to become so "with it" that Christians become virtually indistinguishable from the modern world - then this news should come as no surprise.

Alex

Yes. A proper example of living the faith goes a long way.

As a Western Orthodox individual, for 5 years now, I still have many Evangelical/Charismatic friends. When I first became Orthodox they truly thought I'd "fallen away." I gently explained to them the ancient church. Since then, one friend in particular, has challenged me on a lot of issues re. my faith. I answer her truthfully, but gently, as I believe Christ would have me do. She is listening and she is taking it all in. I don't push, nor argue, nor tell her why she's wrong and I'm right .... I just "live it" as best as I can in front of her, knowing that with each special service, book I have, even to the cross I wear, she will ask and I will have an opportunity to share.
I have my morning prayers and evening prayers, and if I am home - noon day prayers, but I never knew Christians used to pray seven times daily. I guess I'm not trying to make an impact or impress anyone, including Muslims. I feel like by living the life, sharing when He gives me the opportunity in a respectful, gentle way ..... the drawing to Himself is His work. I am merely His vessel.
abby
<*)))><

I think Alex has it. I know many Muslims; hundreds. Some of them are trying to convert me. One told me he has never before met a Christian who believes Christianity. I don't know a lot either, I had to admit. Another, on hearing that Jesus died for our sins, was driven to uncontrolled laughter for which he sincerely apologized between gasps and giggles. He asked "why would he do that!?" and was immediately reduced to a stunned whisper at the answer that seemed to me so lame: "because he loves us". Several, with whom I habitually eat, are shocked and markedly impressed to discover that Christians fast too. The message of Fatima impresses them deeply. They venerate our Blessed Mother and are impressed to consider that the spot chosen by God from which to deliver a message of peace for the world was named Fatima. Fatima, you may know, is the name of the daughter of their founder Mohammed. There are many people in our society who are deaf to the Gospel. Muslims, in my experience, are not.

Just to say how thrilled I was to read these posts as they all speak to those around us through the use of Christian symbols and sacramentals!

A woman I met at a talk I gave on the Jesus Prayer last year showed me her neck chain on which were main different types of religious medals.

She said she would take one off to give to someone she thought needed the comfort of it.

In fact, what I thought would be "my talk" turned into a really dynamic conversation in which everyone shared how they witnessed to the power of the Divine Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What the participants in this thread have done is inspire me and I'm sure others who read and will read what they have said with their own examples of witness.

Alex

To amberpep,

The Church has liturgical prayer to solemnize the hours of the day in both Eastern and Western traditions. Before or at sunrise Matins and Lauds are said. Then there is prayer at the first, third, sixth and ninth hour (6am, 9am noon 3pm.) At sunset, Vespers and Compline before rest. The Eastern Church also has a Midnight office.

Some of these are very long, and not all are still used, even in monastic communities. Many collections of these prayers from both Eastern and Western traditions can be found online. They are liturgical, but are also of great help to the layman in sanctifying the day.

The Roman Breviary, which contains the Roman version, used to be obligatory for priests and religious to recite, either alone or in choir until, of course, the Vatican II revolution. The very reason that this was obligatory was so that the Church would at least have the clergy praying "seven" times a day.

The number seven as used in the Bible does not necessarily mean exactly 4+3=7. By sanctifying the various hours, the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ is then in continuous prayer throughout the world

Many Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches will use some of these prayers in Liturgy, especially during Holy Week. The Pre-Sancified Gifts Liturgy is really Vespers with a Communion service at the end. The Divine Office as sung in the Orthodox tradition can be exceedingly beautiful and inspiring.

Forgive me, but for someone who describes himself as a Roman Refugee you seem to be carrying an awful lot of Roman baggage into exile! Just sayin'!

Roman Refugee made me want to mention the beautiful edition of the Horologion the Melkites have printed--$50 for hard back and $60 for leather bound.

Both versions come with 7 ribbons.

My understanding is that Kyr Nicholas (Samra) is encouraging the publication of the four volumes of the Anthologion. It is probably out of print in Greek. I believe it is still available in a fine Italian translation done by one of the Russian nuns -- peace to her hands (salam dayat-ha!)

To Ot'ets Nastoiatel'

Yes, I know, you are right. I try to keep it to a minimum. I don't flee all things Roman, mostly just Vatican II and its "fruits." Modernist Rome, as opposed to Eternal Rome, as they say. I use the Pius X version of the old Breviary in my daily prayer life, especially the longer version of Matins. But I will often use Byzantine morning and evening prayer. For personal recitation, it is easier than the Eastern Divine Office, which really should be sung with others.

I am a sort of hybrid, an odd duck. I subscribe to the Two Lungs idea, and participate in both rites. I came East of necessity, since the true Roman Mass is few and hard to find. But you have heard all this before from others. My pastor at Holy Trinity at the time encouraged my doing so, and the East opened a whole new world to me. If not for Holy Trinity, I would not be any kind of Catholic now, so if I get to heaven I will be thanking the East and not Rome.

BTW, I saw your post where you said that you served as Deacon at Holy Trinity (Byzantine Catholic?) Church in New Britain. Wonder if you are from my own home town, (NB, that is.) Not to pry, of course.

Charlie

Just to add to my last post--I'll never be able to absorb the great wealth of Eastern Christian culture that all you folks here possess. I would need another lifetime. But every day I learn something more from this forum. The Mystical Body is so varied in its members yet so united in its Head. I welcome all criticism and comments with gratitude.

It's just disappointing and disturbing. But perhaps in several decades, the rise of Islam will serve as punishment in the West for our grave materialist and moral sins. Perhaps this will serve to revive Christian Faith? My humble belief.