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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: May 2008
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I read the article to which the link takes you, and it prompted me to search for any material coming directly from Ms Corless herself (the researcher who uncovered this scandal).
I found an interview with her on RTÉ's Drivetime radio programme on 4 June this year (sorry, couldn't organise a link to it, but it is easily found if you go to rte.ie and put "Corless" into the search engine). She believes that, based on her research among the official papers in Co Galway, the 796 children who are recorded as having died at the home are buried in the corner of the Tuam site which is occupied by the septic tank.
My first reaction to this was a prayer for all those little souls - may they all rest in peace.
My second reaction is that there MUST be a full investigation of this, and the church and the orders concerned MUST fully co-operate with it, and be seen to be doing so.
Craig
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... Ms Corless herself (the researcher who uncovered this scandal). This sounds like the verdict is already in, a done deal. Is it?
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No, I don't think you could say the verdict's in: I think (and this is just my opinion) that what has come to light to date clearly shows the need for a full and transparent investigation of all the evidence, not just Ms Corless' research. But what she has uncovered undoubtedly shows a case that needs answered - and the church must bend every effort to doing that.
C
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The Archbishop of Dublin has spoken out very forthrightly on the matter and the need for a full investigation. See Archbishop Martin calls for full inquiry on Tuam home [irishtimes.com]The verdict is in so far as the number of deaths. Ms Corless received 796 death records from the County's death registers. If one presumes that those date from 1932 (the year in which death records were mandated) until 1961, when the home closed, that's an average of 26 deaths a year, a pretty high mortality rate for a facility with an rated capacity of about 250 persons. Even if the records date back to 1925, when the religious order opened the facility, you'd still be looking at an average of 22-23 deaths per year. May the memory of the Lord's children be eternal! Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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The Archbishop of Dublin has spoken out very forthrightly on the matter and the need for a full investigation. ...
The verdict is in so far as the number of deaths. Ms Corless received 796 death records from the County's death registers. If one presumes that those date from 1932 (the year in which death records were mandated) until 1961, when the home closed, that's an average of 26 deaths a year, a pretty high mortality rate for a facility with an rated capacity of about 250 persons.
Even if the records date back to 1925, when the religious order opened the facility, you'd still be looking at an average of 22-23 deaths per year. My previous question regarded the label "scandal" being used broadly with the presented fact of "registered deaths." And registered deaths does not necessarily mean number of burials. There may still be some scandal coming but it appears there was no coverup about the deaths. There has to be an independent inquiry because the church does not need another boondoggle like the hierarchy's handling of the pedophilia issue, and the dead deserve that the truth be established. As to the numbers, assuming only 250 births per year, the infant mortality for this, presumably high risk situation, is 10.6% or, using the standard reporting method, 111 deaths per 1000 live births at that place. The numbers rightfully shock us but consider that current values for the country with the highest value in the world, Sierra Leone, is 119.20/1000. link [ indexmundi.com] And then there are the times and conditions -- midwives not MDs, wars, lower living and sanitary standards, etc. -- from which we are likely insulated. Consider this assessment for example: The efforts of the Board, especially from the 1920’s to the 1940’s, and the contemporaneous public health policies of the Department of Local Government and Public Health, created a reliable, professional corps of midwives, essential at a time of increasing recognition of the need to further the health of mothers and children. Nevertheless, by modern standards the toll of infant and maternal mortality remained disappointingly high throughout the period. At the end of the 1920’s the Department reported that” the problem of ensuring safety in childbirth remains unsolved”. For every one thousand births, five mothers were dying in childbirth. A particularly sad social reflection of the times was that almost one-third of all so-called illegitimate children died in infancy. The high toll of infant death continued. During the mid-1930’s the infant death rate was 65 per 1000 births but it was as high as 126 in Limerick City and 110 in Wexford Town. [ google.com] I'm also concerned that the Sisters of Bon Secours -- as they see themselves: "Since 1824 the Sisters of Bon Secours have brought compassion, healing, and liberation to those they serve." link [ bonsecours.org] -- be given a fair hearing and that there not be judgement until all the facts are in. And facts are often presented poorly. That there are 795 recorded deaths, not all may be burials at the site, and the number of recorded deaths for each year, for instance, would put the presumably scandalous number in some historical perspective. Here is the present wiki link [ en.wikipedia.org] on the issue. We all await the fully and hopefully true story.
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Joined: May 2007
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An update and corrections from AP: How A Horrifying Story About Babies Buried In A Mass Grave Got Reported So Wrong [ finance.yahoo.com] AP
The Associated Press headquarters in Manhattan.
On Friday afternoon, the Associated Press published a lengthy correction on a story from earlier this month about recently unearthed records that showed 796 children were buried in a mass grave outside an old Irish orphanage for the children of unwed mothers.
The AP correction acknowledged four errors including that it "incorrectly reported that the children had not received Roman Catholic baptisms" and "that Catholic teaching at the time was to deny baptism and Christian burial to the children of unwed mothers."
AP spokesman Paul Colford told Business Insider Sunday that the mistakes were primarily the result of "editorial errors that included unfortunate jumps to flawed conclusions." Colford also described how this resulted in the false claim the children had not been baptized.
"AP was aware that Irish priests did sometimes refuse to baptize children if the parents could not pledge to raise the children as Catholics, and that those children were denied burial in marked graves in Catholic cemeteries," Colford said. "Here, we incorrectly made the leap that a similar logic applied to the children of unwed mothers. (As it was, Irish news media also were reporting the same that the babies had not been baptized.)"
According to the AP, documents subsequently showed "many children at the orphanage were baptized." AP also noted that, while some children of unwed mothers may have been denied baptisms by the Catholic church "at times" during the early 20th century, "it was not church teaching."
In addition to those errors, the correction said AP incorrectly described the orphanage as having opened in 1926 when it actually opened a year earlier. The AP story also initially quoted a researcher who said they believed the children were buried in an old septic tank. In the correction, AP acknowledged "the researcher has since clarified that without excavation and forensic analysis it is impossible to know how many sets of remains the tank contains, if any."
Colford said the issue with the septic tank "required more of a clarification than a correction" since the researcher's claims were not necessarily contradictory.
"A researcher first told AP that most of the remains were probably interred in a disused septic tank. Last week, the researcher said without excavation and forensic analysis there is no way of confirming that," Colford explained. "The two statements are not contradictory, as she was expressing an opinion about what was likely true. She is now stressing that she cannot say so with certainty."
Colford declined to comment when Business Insider asked if anyone at the organization was disciplined as a result of the errors in this story.
"As a company policy we just don't comment on personnel matters," said Colford.
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More Church bashing at every opportunity. It never stops.
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More Church bashing at every opportunity. It never stops. Indeed...and it has done great damage to the significance of religion and God in this country.
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