www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology first confession?? first communion??

Wounderbar Gahzar,

So I guess that I am one of those that are considered ultraorthodox and should get a life.Yet I cant help but to look at all the books on my shelves dedicated to the early church fathers and think about how they did it.It seems that we will always be at odds yet all I can do is fight the battles in my own parrish.

I don't think wanting to return to our historic traditions (as Old Rome, herself has asked us) makes one "ultraorthodox." Its only when in the pursuit of this end, one begins causing schisms and division, that we must question the means of restoration. Obviously there needs to be a balance. Rather than causing division, until this balance is found in my Church, I have made other arragements (like I mentioned in my last post) to accomplish my family's personal return and practice of our authentic Eastern heritage and Tradition. Let us pray for our pastors to be able to find this balance.

In Christ's Light,

Wm. Der-Ghazarian Wolfe

Alex:

I just have to inquire about those parishes which you mention only offer the sacrament of baptism to children, instead of also chrismation and Eucharist. Of course, I'm familiar with the fact that not quite all of our churches are yet offering communion to infants (although they should), but to withhold chrismation seems like such an oddity and I hope quite rare.

Historically, I'm familiar with certain precepts of the decree, "Ea Semper" which attempted to forbid our priests from administering the sacrament of "confirmation" (chrismation) and its celebration together with baptism, but this aspect of the decree met with intense opposition from our clergy and faithful and was never enforced. This of course, was attempted at the instigation of the Latin hierarchy, who among other things, did not want to upset their "healthy balance" by the sudden appearance of Catholic priests (Greek Catholic naturally) who had faculties to administer confirmation, while in their church, it was and still is reserved to the bishop.

(In essence, all priests of either church have the capability to bestow confirmation or chrismation, but in the Latin variety, the faculty to do so is reserved to those with the episcopal character. With special allowances, priests of the Latin Church can administer confirmation to adult converts, if the diocesan bishop grants them such faculties, but I believe that it must be requested on a "case by case basis". Oh by the way, that sounds familiar. Where have we heard that line before - "case by case basis?")

If certain Ukrainian parishes in Canada do in fact celebrate baptism alone, how and when is chrismation administered to those who experience incomplete sacraments of initiation? Is it performed by the pastor at some later age, or (worse scenario yet), does the eparchial bishop actually come around and "confirm" those who were not given the sacrament at their baptisms.

This is an anomaly that, with all my years in our church, I've never come across or heard of, even in the most latinized of parishes. I'm intrigued. Thanks for your input on this perplexing but interesting phenomenon.

Sincerely in Christ,

Fr. Joe

Forgive me, Holy Father, and bless!

Happily, the phenomenon of Baptism only has gone the way of the dinosaur, but I know people who went through this experience - they later were "confirmed" in their Latin Catholic school.

We still have parishes that refuse the Communion Chalice to newly baptized and chrismated infants.

Alex

I recently spoke with a Byzantine priest who feels it is a huge mistake to be chrismating and giving the eucharist at the time of baptism: he says that in his experience, he never sees these people again until it's time for them to get married: and that it is another contributing factor in the whole generation of pagans now (not) populating the Byzantine churches. Is this a common sentiment among BC priests?

Was the desire to make children keep coming to church in any way a factor in the development of the west's practice of stretching out the reception of sacraments over an entire childhood?

Dear Prodigal Son,

Well, you've certainly hit on an important point!

This is one reason for the popularity of the "First Confession and Solemn Communion" - it keeps people coming to church until their kids have "graduated." Although that too is a bad and dangerous concept.

We really need, I believe, to live a liturgical life and to communicate this to our people, especially to our youth.

To be "Orthodox" is to live just such a liturgical life every day and in Church.

Alex

If infants are not coming to Church after receiving the Mysteries of Initiation until they seek to marry, it's not the fault of the infants. The blame must be placed upon the parents. If a pastor knows the inclination of the parents not to raise their children in the faith, perhaps the pastor should not intiate the children in the first place. IMHO, it equally wrong for the pastor to use the Mysteries as a "carrot" to keep people coming to Church. These people certainly have no idea of the Church as Communion.

Committment to the faith and the community must be evidenced before our pastor will baptize someone. In the case of the infants this is evidenced by the parents. We typically have about 6-8 christenings (complete initiation) per year, and not one has been to an "inactive" family or someone "shopping around".

Having said this, if an inactive family is seeking baptism for their children, the pastor does have baptism preparation, which includes a commitment by the family to participate in at least the liturgical life of the parish on a regular basis. Under these circumstances, the pastor has the opportunity to lead a family back to the fold.

John

Going back to what ProdigalSong stated/asked
Was the desire to make children keep coming to church in any way a factor in the development of the west's practice of stretching out the reception of sacraments over an entire childhood?

It didn't work either

I remember a comment made by Cardinal Winning when he came - as was his custome, to meet the parents of the Children he was going to C
onfirm later that year. As he entered the Hall he whispered to the Parish Priest " Well I'll bet you haven't seen 50% of these parents since their Children received their First Communion and I don't suppose you'll see many of them after the Confirmations either. "

And it was true - we would get some of the children on their own for a while and then they would be remarkable by their absence.

Quite what will happen now we are 'reordering' the reception of the Sacraments I don't know - but as they will all have received all the Sacraments of Initiation by the time they have reached the age of 9 our chances of seeing the parents after that is not too high

Despite the fact that I am Latin - I think you in the East have it right .

Anhelayna