www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West "transitional" and "permanent" deacons

In a recent conversation with a priest in the chancery he asked if, or more like said, our deacon is a "permanent deacon". I hesitated for a moment and then said something like "Well, we don't really have such a thing as 'permanent' and 'transitional' deacons... sometimes men are called on to the priesthood from the deaconate and sometimes not." As soon as he began his reply I knew I should have just kept my mouth shut on that one. I really wasn't wanting to get derailed in the conversation. He began to kind of explain to me about what transitional deacons are and that he was sure it was the same in the Eastern Catholic Churches as in the Roman Church. I'm completely familiar with transitional deacons and with permanent deacons, and have several close friends who are now, and have worked with others in the past many times.

So that conversation got me thinking. I don't have that much experience with other Eastern Catholic Churches. The majority of my experience outside of my own Greek Catholic parish is with Orthodox parishes. In the Greek Orthodox Church locally they basically don't have deacons. Any man ordained as a deacon spends a super short time as one, maybe a couple of weeks, before they're ordained a priest. For the OCA and ROCOR here I see deacons who remain deacons for years with no apparent indication there's a likelihood of them ever becoming priests.

In the Catholic West the transitionsl deacon period of time is pretty much defined by the Diocese or the the religious community for Dominicans, Franciscans etc. within the time line of their formation to the priesthood.

At least here in the US and Canada are there Eastern Catholic Churches which actually have that style of transitional deaconate, a defined period during their seminary education when they are a deacon, and it would be standard for any guy in that seminary? Are there not deacons in the ECCs who find they are later called to the priesthood, tho that wasn't part of the original plan?

I hope what I'm asking makes some sense.

Most ECC deacons who are transitional are so for about a year...like in the Latin rite. I know of non-transitional ECC deacons, but not of their going on to the priesthood at a later time...like in the Latin rite. For the latter, I suppose either lack of full seminary training or matrimony are barriers to going on to the priesthood, if they wish. I am not sure at what point, subdiaconate perhaps is the dealbreaker, one woukd have to forgoe marriage if one were to remain celibate through diaconate and priesthood afterwards (or to have been married already to be in the so-called "white clergy"). I have never heard of widowed deacons remarrying, but I don't get around much.

This is an ugly neologistic distinction without a difference. As Gertrude Stein might have put it, "A deacon is a deacon is a deacon." Let me ask you this: if a 'transitional' deacon dies before his priestly ordination does he get grandfathered in as a 'permanent' deacon? You see what utter nonsense this is! It is simply a way of creating an invidious distinction between 'clerical celibate deacons on a career path' and married deacons who actually do real pastoral ministry in the parishes.

Thank you for that Abouna! I can think of a number of Melkite deacons in this country who have been ordained to the priesthood. The terms really don't make much sense.

Don't kill the messenger. I am just calling as I see them from my Ruthenian experiences a long time ago. I don't want to malign our hosts, but Ruthenians frequently dance to the tune of the Latin rite behemoth in the US.
I'll just leave it at that. Now, the ROCOR sobor I attend has had the same deacon for 35 years.
I think we can at least agree that the transitional deacon is just a Latin rite phenom. because that is all they had in the way of deacons for centuries.

I don't know if we can all agree. The following sounds a bit like a transitional deacon to me:

At least as Latin Rite deacons spend a year or so as a deacon before transitioning to the priesthood.

LOL.

Can I make a suggestion?

The Latins are so large when compare to us you're never going to get all of them to understand us, how we do theology, or how we speak.

When a Latin asks you if a deacon is "transitional" or "permanent" just put on a big grin and say: "That's up to his bishop. Maybe someday." That's enough to get them thinking.

My reason for posting wasn't so that I could explain it to anyone in the Latin Church. No thanks. The minute we headed down that rabbit hole I changed course in my conversation with that priest. Our conversation was about a totally different topic which I did want to talk with him about.

I'm only trying to learn what is actually the usual, if there is one, situation for deacons in our ECs here. As I said I've been around mainly Orthodox for this. In that case there clearly are deacons who are ordained and are likely to remain deacons. But I have also known of situations where after years as a deacon one went on for more seminary training and was ordained a priest. There isn't any kind of impossibility of those other deacons becoming a priest, just that it isn't where their vocation seems to be.

I thought by what Protodeacon Bryan wrote "I can think of a number of Melkite deacons in this country who have been ordained to the priesthood." that he was saying this has happened for the Melkites, since surely every Melkite priest was first a deacon.

I did have the impression that when a deacon went back to school and was then ordained a priest that it was his bishop who had called him to do so.

8IronBob might be able to get an idea how long it took, for Fr Michael Lee, to be ordained to the presbyterate, from the deaconate. and I think what Admin John suggested is fitting, too.

In regards to the adjectival modifiers ‘transitional’ and ‘permanent’ the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches does not lend itself to this terminology. Pay particular attention to Can. 760 - §2.

We read:

Can. 759 - §1. The prescribed age for the diaconate is completion of twenty-three years, for the presbyterate the completion of twenty-four years, with due regard for particular law requiring an older age in a particular Church sui iuris.

Can. 760 - §1. It is permissible to ordain a deacon only after he has successfully completed the fourth year of a curriculum of philosophical-theological studies, unless the synod of bishops of a patriarchal Church or the council of hierarchs determines otherwise.

§2. If it is a case of a candidate who is not destined for the priesthood, (sacerdotium) it is permitted to ordain him deacon only after he has successfully completed the third year of studies mentioned in can. 354; if however it happens later that he is admitted to the priesthood (sacerdotium), he must first complete his theological studies in the appropriate manner.

*The liturgical texts do not use such terms and we should always bear in mind that our liturgical life is theologia prima.

The orders (ordo) are permanent for they are apostolic and constitutive of the hierarchy of the Church. Those in the orders are not.

We would do well to ride our minds of the cursus honorum in regards to the way we think and speak about the ministerial orders in the Church. Theologically no one need to be ordained a deacon to be ordained a presbyter, nor ordained a deacon or a presbyter to be ordained a bishop.

I realize that I should have been clearer. What I meant is that there have been a number of men who served the Melkite Church in America as deacons for a number of years and subsequently were ordained to the priesthood.

That's what I thought you meant. Thank you for clarifying, and for confirming that this is something which, like in Orthodox Churches, happens also in at least some ECCs. For me that answers what I intended to ask in my original post.

Well, they do have only one Lent ...

Perhaps the gentleman is really a Baptist. I believe they have a non-permanent diaconate.

Melkites ordaining deacons to the presbyterate...I know of a shrinking Old Calendar Greek jurisdiction which ordains men after a prolonged diaconate to the presbyterate. It has no seminary.