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Joined: Nov 2001
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Joined: Nov 2001
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Orthodox Catholic,
When I am on land, I attend the ordinary Roman Rite parish where my wife and I were married. She is a fairly religious woman, and she attends what is comfortable and familiar to her- nothing odd about that.
Unfortunately, regardless of the ordinary Roman Rite parish we attend in our metropolitan area, I can’t find peace. I typically experience a range of emotions, from outright bitterness to emotional detachment. I often find myself with clenched fist in the pews, and that is saddening for me. I am a young man- it’s not like I’m some hold-out codger.
I just can’t find peace. My wife is religious, but she doesn’t really understand these matters. She is your normal Roman Catholic, and there is nothing wrong with that, but she just doesn’t take interest in these concerns. Football takes precedence there :-)
I took her to the local Byzantine Catholic parish once, but I don’t know if she was comfortable or welcoming of this “exotic” (I’d say spiritually exquisite) divine worship. I even requested a change in rite to salvage my foundation in the Catholic Church, but I was told by the priest that this was unwise, as it would potentially introduce spiritual division in the marriage. So I did not pursue the matter.
I used to attend this parish every other weekend, or I would make time to attend the FSSP-staffed Mass, but I also ceased attending that after a while. After a time I saw these parishes as spiritual band-aids for otherwise gaping wounds. In general, I probably wasn’t attending for the right reasons. I did not wish to dishonor God or these sacred, venerable, ancient rites of divine worship by hauling my baggage to these temples of God.
So, I attend church with my wife, and I utter the passages by rote. I’ve simply lost the conviction. I feel extraordinarily spiritually bare- lush forests to barren deserts. Dear Sir, I was very touched by your post here - we all need to find peace such as you want. So did I in my younger years. I tried to find it where I didn't get it. For me, my faith, at that time, had to be "intellectually satisfying." No luck with that. I found that doctrine alone left me with a void that was depressing. A greater turning to the Eastern Christian traditions of my own UGCC was what got me out of the rut. We need, I believe, to experience the Life in Christ, the process of Theosis in Christ through the Holy Spirit. Liturgical prayer, especially the Daily Office/Horologion, is what clinched "the deal." In liturgical prayer, we worship as we believe and we worship God with the Church, the Comunion of Saints, especially the Fathers who composed the prayers, the saints of the Bible etc. It became less important to me that I was "right" in what I believed than that I "rightly worshipped" i.e. faith and praxis. My wife sometimes makes fun of me that I dedicate so much effort to the praying of the Daily Office/Horologion. She did so today over dinner and it got me thinking that I don't feel that I'm doing enough to pray with the Church. It is when we truly pray with the Church that we can then believe with the Church. That is the ultimate standard for our life in Christ through His Church. God draws us to Himself and He does so through His Church and how His Church prays. So I think we should focus not so much on our unattainable wish to believe as we think we should, but on an ever-growing development of our faith relationship with God through liturgical worship. Great inner peace is sure to follow! God bless you sir! Alex
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426 |
Orthodox Catholic,
When I am on land, I attend the ordinary Roman Rite parish where my wife and I were married. She is a fairly religious woman, and she attends what is comfortable and familiar to her- nothing odd about that.
Unfortunately, regardless of the ordinary Roman Rite parish we attend in our metropolitan area, I can’t find peace. I typically experience a range of emotions, from outright bitterness to emotional detachment. I often find myself with clenched fist in the pews, and that is saddening for me. I am a young man- it’s not like I’m some hold-out codger.
I just can’t find peace. My wife is religious, but she doesn’t really understand these matters. She is your normal Roman Catholic, and there is nothing wrong with that, but she just doesn’t take interest in these concerns. Football takes precedence there :-)
I took her to the local Byzantine Catholic parish once, but I don’t know if she was comfortable or welcoming of this “exotic” (I’d say spiritually exquisite) divine worship. I even requested a change in rite to salvage my foundation in the Catholic Church, but I was told by the priest that this was unwise, as it would potentially introduce spiritual division in the marriage. So I did not pursue the matter.
I used to attend this parish every other weekend, or I would make time to attend the FSSP-staffed Mass, but I also ceased attending that after a while. After a time I saw these parishes as spiritual band-aids for otherwise gaping wounds. In general, I probably wasn’t attending for the right reasons. I did not wish to dishonor God or these sacred, venerable, ancient rites of divine worship by hauling my baggage to these temples of God.
So, I attend church with my wife, and I utter the passages by rote. I’ve simply lost the conviction. I feel extraordinarily spiritually bare- lush forests to barren deserts. Dear Sir, I was very touched by your post here - we all need to find peace such as you want. So did I in my younger years. I tried to find it where I didn't get it. For me, my faith, at that time, had to be "intellectually satisfying." No luck with that. I found that doctrine alone left me with a void that was depressing. A greater turning to the Eastern Christian traditions of my own UGCC was what got me out of the rut. We need, I believe, to experience the Life in Christ, the process of Theosis in Christ through the Holy Spirit. Liturgical prayer, especially the Daily Office/Horologion, is what clinched "the deal." In liturgical prayer, we worship as we believe and we worship God with the Church, the Comunion of Saints, especially the Fathers who composed the prayers, the saints of the Bible etc. It became less important to me that I was "right" in what I believed than that I "rightly worshipped" i.e. faith and praxis. My wife sometimes makes fun of me that I dedicate so much effort to the praying of the Daily Office/Horologion. She did so today over dinner and it got me thinking that I don't feel that I'm doing enough to pray with the Church. It is when we truly pray with the Church that we can then believe with the Church. That is the ultimate standard for our life in Christ through His Church. God draws us to Himself and He does so through His Church and how His Church prays. So I think we should focus not so much on our unattainable wish to believe as we think we should, but on an ever-growing development of our faith relationship with God through liturgical worship. Great inner peace is sure to follow! God bless you sir! Alex Something about the apostolic communities finding ways to make the "intangible" tangible. When it's just Father George, two in the choir; and myself, I don't feel too lonely because of the icons presence, sensing the real communion of saints as we pray.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
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Joined: Feb 2005
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I wasn't referring to you Peter Well that's a relief ... for a moment there I thought I had amnesia. 
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 167
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 167 |
Orthodox Catholic,
You are a very impassioned defender of the Catholic Church. To piggy-back on another poster said on another topic, I am considering saving your comments in a Word document for future reference. I do appreciate your sincere guidance and words.
I think that for now I am in Limbo. I believe it boils down to the fact that I possess neither faith nor trust in modern Western Catholicism; this is the dominant, mainstream Catholicism of our time. As I mentioned, none of these matters concern my wife; she is your mainstream Roman Catholic, and all of the concerns I have would probably befuddle her. (She is, however, a religious gal, and that is good). So, I will be attending the ordinary Roman Rite parish wherever we reside, but I have a feeling it will continue to corrode whatever Faith I possess.
I'm trying to return to my daily use of the Jesus Prayer. I believe that can start the healing. Please pray for me a chief sinner.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,335 Likes: 96
Moderator Member
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Moderator Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,335 Likes: 96 |
My wife sometimes makes fun of me that I dedicate so much effort to the praying of the Daily Office/Horologion. She did so today over dinner and it got me thinking that I don't feel that I'm doing enough to pray with the Church. It is when we truly pray with the Church that we can then believe with the Church. That is the ultimate standard for our life in Christ through His Church.
God draws us to Himself and He does so through His Church and how His Church prays.
So I think we should focus not so much on our unattainable wish to believe as we think we should, but on an ever-growing development of our faith relationship with God through liturgical worship. Alex: Christ is in our midst!! Somewhere I have read that every family needs a "prayer warrior"--someone who works on prayer for his family, the wider Church, and himself. Each one finds the way that the Lord leads him to do this. Not everyone understands, but that does not mean that this is not an important part of every faith community. I believe, as my grandparents used to say, that the prayers of the monks are all that keep the Lord's anger from coming down on all of us. I also believe that the prayers of lay "prayer warriors" is equally important. Additionally we may have these "prayer warriors" in our midst and they are hidden because they do not pray in the street, but do so quietly and without even telling others of their activity. They--like you--are the Lord's hidden treasure that will be revealed for His Glory at the Judgment Seat. So what if they make fun of you. It's only a manifestation that you make others nervous because they can't or don't make the same effort toward theosis. Besides, most will never understand that the prayer warrior seldom is self-centered in his prayer practice. Bob
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