www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Another UOC-MP parish moves to the Kyivan Patriarchate

A large parish in Rivne in Ukraine of the UOC-MP has come under the omophorion of the Kyivan Patriarchate: www.cerkva.info [cerkva.info]

Rivne is where my grandfather had once served as a UGCC priest.

The parish held a council meeting where they voted unanimously to leave the Moscow Patriarchate.

Unfortunately, when the parish came en masse to their Church, they were prevented from entering by clergy and supporters of the Moscow Patriarchate who actually used tear gas to keep the people at bay . . .

However, the parishioners all assembled in Church on Sunday without incident where they held their first Divine Liturgy as members of the UOC-KP.

Alex

The fourth parish of the UOC-MP of the Horokhivsky region in Volyn, Ukraine IN ONE MONTH has been received into the Kyivan Patriarchate. Pictures of the event are at www.cerkva.info [cerkva.info]

The parish priests also joined their parishioners following an open vote on the matter.

The UOOC-MP has been reporting that such events are being conducted by violent means.

Judging by the pictures alone, everything seems to be peaceful and quiet . . .

Alex

How it's portrayed elsewhere: http://www.pravmir.com/schismatics-take-orthodox-church-mp-rovno-region-ukraine/

Someone besides Alex - I already know his biases - please tell me whether or not the UOC-KP is a canonical Orthodox church? What I read tells me no other Orthodox churches recognize it. is this so? I need truth and facts, not propaganda. Trying to sort all this out from thousands of miles away is next to impossible.

Charles - the UOC-KP is non-canonical - sadly

Thank you!

Charles,

At no time have I ever said the UOC-KP is canonical. My bias is that I believe the Ukrainian Orthodox Church should be autocephalous with its own patriarchate.

The fact that more and more parishes of the UOC-MP are deciding to join the KP is just that - a fact.

How did other Orthodox Churches establish their patriarchates, I wonder? Were these granted to them immediately by Constantinople? Or did they first declare their own patriarchates and only after a period of time were they recognized as canonical?

The Ukrainian Orthodox are slipping from the Moscow Patriarchate's grasp. The MP is asserting that they are being "forced" to join the KP - when this is being done by democratic vote - something the MP hotly contests.

Why wouldn't Ukrainian Orthodox wish to remain under the Patriarchate of Moscow, the Church of the country that has oppressed them? Hard to believe!

And what is even harder to believe that there are individuals here who want to be "objective" about the matter . . .

The Moscow Patriarchate also maintains that the rebirth of the Ukrainian Catholic Church - the Church that it destroyed in 1946 - was also done via a Vatican plot etc.

The MP continues to throw this idea into Rome's face at every "ecumenical" turn. Are you open to that bias too? Or is it only a bias when one opposes the MP?

So please go ahead and choose which "bias" you'd like to support.

Alex

You mean, by the Russian press . . .

Wow, I can't believe they say those kind of things . . .

No mention of how the ROC destroyed the UGCC and the UAOC via Soviet tanks and KGB terror either . . .

Alex

I asked because I wanted accurate information, not personal political beliefs.

Isn't there already an existing autocephalous church in addition to the MP and KP?

I would suppose the KP church could become canonical if someone like the Ecumenical Patriarch recognized them. It doesn't necessarily require any recognition from Moscow.

"Personal political beliefs?!" I think everyone knows I'm Ukrainian Catholic and so my beliefs flow from that identity.

Am I in favour of the UOC-KP? Yes, I am even though it is necessary for it to become canonical.

There is a UAOC in Ukraine that accounts for 1.8% of the Orthodox faithful - also non-canonical and parishes from that group are also joining the KP (as recently as August).

There are also small breakaway Russian Orthodox churches who don't want to recognize the MP.

But Ukrainian Catholics and many others likewise hold "personal political beliefs" concerning the unity of the Church in Ukraine and its independence of Moscow.

One day, perhaps, I'll grow into the person you are, Charles, - someone without any personal political beliefs.

Alex

Political beliefs are fine, but I don't mix mine with religion. That seldom turns out well. Although I must admit the Independents are looking more appealing than either of the other parties, of late. I was under the impression you are Canadian and not a citizen of Ukraine.

Does being a citizen of Canada mean that one does not have a cultural background, cannot speak any language other than English or French, or must belong to either the Anglican or Latin Catholic Church?

You should ask this same question of the many other EC and EO Churches who have connections to their ancestral homelands and who suffer along with their brothers and sisters there.

My patriarch/primate (yes, the UGCC patriarchate is also "uncanonical") is in Ukraine.

And when he speaks, all Ukrainian Catholics around the world listen, no matter what their citizenship.

You can really be a bit much sometimes sir. (Like me, I suppose . . .

Alex

My ancestors are Scottish and Austrian. They are all dead. I have no interest in the politics of Scotland or Austria and find U.S. politics exhausting enough for anyone. I don't know anyone in Austria, and what I know of Scotland comes from the lovely lady there who posts here - she is also a great fan of chocolate.

Dear Charles,

I get your point sir!

Canada is a bit different in that its policy of multiculturalism characterizes its people who are from many and varied backgrounds.

Politics is something that comes with the territory . . .

In my work at the legislature, I helped establish official days to celebrate, among other things, Tartan Day (April 6) and also the official Ontario tartan.

I've also helped establish "German Pioneers Day" which is the day after Thanksgiving Monday in Octoober here. It brings out Canadians of GSA background (Germany, Switzerland and Austria) for the flag-raising and other events honouring the fact that 70% plus of the early settlers in Ontario were of Germanic background.

When I helped organize an event with the Austrian Club here to introduce a book on the Empress Zita, I received a call from the consulate asking me to ensure that the Austro-Hungarian anthem wouldn't be sung at the event nor would the two-headed eagle of the Austro-Hungarian empire be displayed.

Despite my assurances that I would do what was asked, the first thing that the slide presentation depicted was the coat of arms, at which everyone in the rather large crowd stood (including the Austrian consul general, but not his wife) to sing the anthem.

There was nothing anyone could do . . .

That is Canada. That is also the U.S. when it comes to groups like Ukrainians and others.

I've also never been to Ukraine but would like to go to visit my family and pray at the great shrines.

When I did my PhD in multiculturalism, a person I was interviewing said this about ethnic identity:

"A horse was about to give birth, but as it started to thunder and rain outside, it ran into the barn. Now, Alex, tell me - what was born, a horse . . . or a cow?"

A horse, or course . . .

Alex

I think I would like Canada, but the winter weather would be hard to adjust to. Remember that I am in eastern Tennessee, mountainous but still warmer most of the time. My dream trip is taking that train across Canada some day. I will get there, eventually. It is on my list of things to do.