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"valuing their homosexual orientation"
This is very disturbing. What have the Eastern Catholic Bishops said about this? I have never heard any Byzantine Catholic bishop or priest speak against the practice of homosexuality. I'm not saying they support it. I'm just saying that they don't talk about it. Archbishop Skurla is there, isn't he? Is there a record of what he said at the meetings? Or maybe he didn't say anything?
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Last edited by Talon; 10/14/14 05:17 PM.
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"valuing their homosexual orientation"
This is very disturbing. What have the Eastern Catholic Bishops said about this? I have never heard any Byzantine Catholic bishop or priest speak against the practice of homosexuality. I'm not saying they support it. I'm just saying that they don't talk about it. Archbishop Skurla is there, isn't he? Is there a record of what he said at the meetings? Or maybe he didn't say anything? Try here: Interesting comments from the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Archbishop Sviatoslav on the current Synod.Metropolitan William is mentioned in the article. http://synodonfamily.wordpress.com/...cal-spiritual-balance-synod-members-say/"VATICAN CITY (CNS) — By tapping into its Eastern theological and spiritual traditions, the Catholic Church could find an appropriate way to minister to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics and others in situations the church considers irregular, the head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church said. “According to the tradition of the Byzantine church, a priest or a bishop is not a judge. His task is not to justify or to condemn somebody, especially in such a delicate area as marriage and family,” Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, the major archbishop of Kiev-Halych, told reporters Oct. 11. “Our task, our duty is to be spiritual fathers and provide some sort of spiritual healing.” " (Also interesting is that the Catholic News Service does not refer to the Archbishop as patriarch.)
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Prior to Pope Francis, did the Catholic Church denounce faithful Catholic organizations such as Courage? Courage exists to shepherd to those with same sex attraction. Were they ostracized? Neither prior to, nor since. Courage has always had two thumbs up from the Church and always will.
Last edited by Talon; 10/14/14 05:31 PM.
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I hear ya, brother Michael. But is it really the Synod that is spending an "inordinate amount of time" on the matter, or is it the media? BLessings Still, one wonders why they bother spending an inordinate amount of time and resources to discuss something so minor to the larger topic at hand. Homosexuals as a whole may be 2% of practicing Catholics, excluding celibate faithful of same-sex attraction, those who have taken vows, etc., who exactly is this document in regard to/for? Public relations?
What about our own married clergy and FAMILIES who are restricted from ministry?
What of our latinized Eastern clergy who refuse to commune innocent members of our FAMILY, our baptised/confirmed children?
So uncle Jim and his lover boyfriend can attend Mass and receive but my confirmed daughter needs to attain the 'age of reason'? What for, so that reason can be side-stepped and ignored?
Heck, maybe I'm too cynical. Perhaps this a move to allow single priests to marry each other to attain the same legal/tax benefits as married couples, and save the local parishes some money, at least in Europe and the Americas.
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"valuing their homosexual orientation"
This is very disturbing. What have the Eastern Catholic Bishops said about this? I have never heard any Byzantine Catholic bishop or priest speak against the practice of homosexuality. I'm not saying they support it. I'm just saying that they don't talk about it. Archbishop Skurla is there, isn't he? Is there a record of what he said at the meetings? Or maybe he didn't say anything? Try here: Interesting comments from the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Archbishop Sviatoslav on the current Synod.Metropolitan William is mentioned in the article. http://synodonfamily.wordpress.com/...cal-spiritual-balance-synod-members-say/"VATICAN CITY (CNS) — By tapping into its Eastern theological and spiritual traditions, the Catholic Church could find an appropriate way to minister to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics and others in situations the church considers irregular, the head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church said. “According to the tradition of the Byzantine church, a priest or a bishop is not a judge. His task is not to justify or to condemn somebody, especially in such a delicate area as marriage and family,” Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, the major archbishop of Kiev-Halych, told reporters Oct. 11. “Our task, our duty is to be spiritual fathers and provide some sort of spiritual healing.” " (Also interesting is that the Catholic News Service does not refer to the Archbishop as patriarch.) Dear DMD, No RC news service ever will refer to him as "patriarch" because Rome has not acknowledged him as such since all patriachates must be established/approved by the Pope. So we UGCCers are being naughty . . .  However, when Pope John Paul II visited Ukraine and participated in the Divine Liturgy, the first Hierarch of the UGCC was referred to as "patriarch" throughout and in his presence. He didn't say anything then - so perhaps his silence gave consent?  I like to think so! Alex
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Neither prior to, nor since. Courage has always had two thumbs up from the Church and always will. Which is what makes it signifigant that their leader is concerned [ ncregister.com] about the confusion and pain being caused by the Synod's intermediate relatio.
Last edited by JBenedict; 10/15/14 08:08 AM. Reason: correct link
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Sorry, brother. I believe only an Ecumenical Council can establish a Patriarchate (with the approval of its head bishop, of course). Btw, what year did that incident with JP2 occur? And was that the first time the head bishop of the UGCC was referred to as Patriarch explicitly TO the bishop of Rome or in the presence of the bishop of Rome without any correction by him? As you might know, according to Canon law, a custom that is not revoked by the competent authority becomes law after 30 years. So how many more years for the countdown? Blessings No RC news service ever will refer to him as "patriarch" because Rome has not acknowledged him as such since all patriachates must be established/approved by the Pope.
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Dear Brother Marduk, Yes, this was during the sainted pope's Ukraine visit when Patriarch Lubomyr served the Divine Liturgy on a field where thousands had amassed - I saw the video too. So which Ecumenical Council established the later Orthodox patriarchates . . .? Did not the Coptic Orthodox Pope and Patriarch establish the Eritrean Orthodox patriarchate? (Good for him, BTW!). In any event, our Synod affirmed that it was a patriarchate and our clergy and hierarchs commemorate him as such at all Divine Liturgies. Good enough for me! Alex
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To be fair, the Moscow and Serbian Orthodox Patriarchates to name just two, came into being long after the last of the Councils recognized as Ecumenical by the Orthodox.
(And I liked what Archbishop/Patriarch Sviatoslav had to say...but I fear that his audience likely to understand and value his points within the Synod was limited.)
Last edited by DMD; 10/15/14 11:54 AM.
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Neither prior to, nor since. Courage has always had two thumbs up from the Church and always will. Which is what makes it signifigant that their leader is concerned [ ncregister.com] about the confusion and pain being caused by the Synod's intermediate relatio. And I sympathize with his concern - to a degree. Those of weaker faith are more easily manipulated than those with stronger faith, and we are all our brothers' keeper to some extent in life. So, we should all be concerned...a LITTLE bit. However, the expression "making a mountain out of a molehill" comes to mind here for me since the inherent sinfulness of homosexual activity is as basic to life as the Trinity, basically, for one thing, and the pope and bishops are guardians of the truth, not authors of it, for another. Every single one of them could wake up tomorrow (in theory) and say, "Hey, we decided being homosexually active is ok after all." and the entire rest of the Church could sit there and say, "Well, looks like we've got some house cleaning to do then because ya'll have drastically departed from the Word of God. Start packing now..." Know what I mean? (Not that we could actually "vote them out of office." I'm just saying...)
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Prior to Pope Francis, did the Catholic Church denounce faithful Catholic organizations such as Courage? For what, being conservative? 
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Dear DMD,
You are truly fair!
Ukrainians have more than one patriarch that they follow: EP, MP, KP, UGCC, etc.
These allegiances tend to reflect certain ecclesial/cultural orientations or historical situations.
Hopefully, this will resolve itself soon.
Alex
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Just another "poor translation" out of countless "poor translations", right? Let's disregard the Pope's ad hoc appointment of 6 moderate to liberal Cardinals to the synod to balance out the elected orthodox cardinals. Let's ignore that the Pope basically referred to defenders of orthodox Catholic doctrines as Pharisees. Let mas ask this: during the tumultuous debates leading up to Humanae Vitae, did Pope Paul VI ever give any hints that he supported contraception?
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Dear brother BenjaminRH, Let's ignore that the Pope basically referred to defenders of orthodox Catholic doctrines as Pharisees. I really don't keep up with the news on Pope Francis other than what I discover here and what friends tell me. Can you please provide the source for this? Let mas ask this: during the tumultuous debates leading up to Humanae Vitae, did Pope Paul VI ever give any hints that he supported contraception? Can you please provide the source or a link of Pope Francis contradicting Traditional Catholic teaching? Blessings
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