|
0 members (),
1,720
guests, and
87
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,508
Posts417,509
Members6,161
| |
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 979
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 979 |
Vatican City, 17 October 2014 (VIS) – Today, the Holy Father received in audience:
- Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, president of the Department for External Ecclesiastical Relations of the Patriarchate of Moscow.
Wonder if he had the gaul to again lambaste the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10 |
Hilarion's interview with Vatican Radio: link. [ mospat.ru] More of the same.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132 |
The statement about the Churches in Byelorussia was nice.
But the statement that there can be no "autocephalous" Church in Ukraine because there already exists the Russian Orthodox Church there is full of inconsistency and even hypocrisy.
P.S. I put "autocephalous" in quotes because I believe the only truly autocephalous Church is the Catholic Church herself.
Last edited by mardukm; 10/17/14 12:03 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978 |
More specifically, I wondered how many people seriously consider his rhetoric about the "uniate problem" to be the true stumbling block between Orthodoxy (worldwide?) and the Catholic Church that it would seem he is regularly trying to communicate to Rome and the rest of the world. Read comments on Orthodox blogs and discussion boards and you'll see the same tone used towards Greek Catholics. Of course, not all Orthodox use the same rhetoric or have the same hatred (yes hatred) towards "uniates" but it does exists. One comment I saw today in response to the article was simply "Axios."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 979
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 979 |
Isn't it obvious that Kremlin propaganda has infected the Russian Orthodox Church? How sad!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 78
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 78 |
The statement about the Churches in Byelorussia was nice.
But the statement that there can be no "autocephalous" Church in Ukraine because there already exists the Russian Orthodox Church there is full of inconsistency and even hypocrisy.
P.S. I put "autocephalous" in quotes because I believe the only truly autocephalous Church is the Catholic Church herself. That seems rather nonsensical because autocephalous means merely that a church may ordain its head bishop without outside approval. To give an example of how deeply ingrained this polity was in the ancient Church, even the Church of Milan retained functional autocephaly into the early second Millennium, despite Rome's constant imperial ambitions to have the bishops of Milan and Aquileia subjugated under her.
Last edited by Cavaradossi; 10/18/14 01:36 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132 |
And yet, every patriarch who was deposed by their Synod could appeal to the bishop of Rome or an Ecum Council, and, if it was merited, the Synod's deposition would be overturned.
So a patriarch's status was not a purely internal matter for an "autocephalous" church.
Blessings
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132 |
To give an example of how deeply ingrained this polity was in the ancient Church, even the Church of Milan retained functional autocephaly into the early second Millennium, despite Rome's constant imperial ambitions to have the bishops of Milan and Aquileia subjugated under her. By analogy, would you say the MP has "imperial ambitions" and is subjugating the Ukranian Church? Blessings
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431 |
Does anyone take what Metropolitan Hilarion says seriously? Yes, in fact the annual "Take Met Hilarion Seriously" conference is in a few weeks. (Not that I'll be going; I'm not real big on flying these days.) Please forgive my lack of prudence and discretion. I had not intended to make a personal attack on Metropolitan Hilarion. Oh, no apology needed as far as I'm concerned. (I figured your question wasn't entirely serious, so I responded in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. :)) More specifically, I wondered how many people seriously consider his rhetoric about the "uniate problem" to be the true stumbling block between Orthodoxy (worldwide?) and the Catholic Church that it would seem he is regularly trying to communicate to Rome and the rest of the world. Good question.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 78
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 78 |
To give an example of how deeply ingrained this polity was in the ancient Church, even the Church of Milan retained functional autocephaly into the early second Millennium, despite Rome's constant imperial ambitions to have the bishops of Milan and Aquileia subjugated under her. By analogy, would you say the MP has "imperial ambitions" and is subjugating the Ukranian Church? Blessings I myself don't particularly care for Met. Hilarion's distasteful abuse of his position as an officer of ecumenical relations (or whatever his ridiculous title might be) for the purpose of giving unsolicited opinions, but since you asked what I think... There is no Canonical Ukrainian Church except for the autonomous one under the Moscow Patriarchate. In other words, there is no Canonical Ukrainian Church for the Moscow Patriarchate to subjugate, as the only one is the one which is an autonomous church within the Moscow Patriarchate. Though some here may find this to be mean or distasteful, all other Christian religious bodies in Ukraine cannot, by Orthodox ecclesiological standards, be considered to be Churches, but only as what St. Basil refers to as conventicles (also called parasynagogues after the original Greek term) in his first canon, taken from Ep. 188.
Last edited by Cavaradossi; 10/18/14 07:25 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 78
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 78 |
And yet, every patriarch who was deposed by their Synod could appeal to the bishop of Rome or an Ecum Council, and, if it was merited, the Synod's deposition would be overturned.
So a patriarch's status was not a purely internal matter for an "autocephalous" church.
Blessings The definition of an Autocephalous Church does not include the ability to depose bishops unjustly at will. It refers to the synod's ability to ordain a primate without the participation of an external entity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,206 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,206 Likes: 1 |
Hilarion's interview with Vatican Radio: link. [ mospat.ru] More of the same. I haven't been able to find this interview on Vatican Radio sites. Has anyone else found a Vatican source for it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 24
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 24 |
With regard to 'Metropolitan' Hilarion, I think he unwittingly does a a service by highlighting the Eastern Catholics as well as those Orthodox in Ukraine who are NOT in communion with the alleged "Moscow Patriarchate", as the troublemakers. Coming from this man and his Stalinist-facilitated "MP", I rejoice in the opposite being true. When he speaks, perhaps it is best to open a window with haste, and allow the fruit of his ecclesiological, ecumenical flatulance to dissipate of its own accord. Better to call a wolf a wolf, than to wait for the dna tests to come back. Revolutionaries are experts at buying time as generations pass in incredulity.
Ivanov
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10 |
Vatican City, 17 October 2014 (VIS) – Today, the Holy Father received in audience:
- Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, president of the Department for External Ecclesiastical Relations of the Patriarchate of Moscow.
Wonder if he had the gaul to again lambaste the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. Looks like he did. On 17 October 2014, Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for External Church Relations, met with the Pope of Rome Francis.
Metropolitan Hilarion conveyed greetings from His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia to the Primate of the Roman Catholic Church, and Pope Francis conveyed his fraternal greetings and best wishes to Patriarch Kirill.
Much attention was paid to the dramatic situation in Ukraine where the conflict lasting for a year has claimed thousands of human lives. Metropolitan Hilarion told the Pope about the situation in the east of Ukraine where three priests were killed and fifty church building were partly or completely destroyed and shared his deep concern about the involvement of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in the political conflict on the side of the forces hostile to the Russian Orthodox Church. Metropolitan Hilarion expressed his hope that the Greek Catholics will revise their position, renounce unilateral politicized declarations and stop support for the schism. [ mospat.ru]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 10 |
I saw on the MP English website that Met. Hilarion is in Rome and scheduled to meet with the Pope and others. Now diplomatic niceties would preclude having the UGCC Patriarch as a part of the Vatican delegation BUT it would be great if say Archbishop Cyril Vasil was. I'd like to see those photos. But, Rome won't do that..... You can see the photos here. [ mospat.ru]
|
|
|
|
|
