www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Petition to prevent entering to the USA

What do you think will this petition collect 100 000 signatures? Will you sign it? Interesting to know what do you think about all these things?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...-entering-united-states-america/lzf4F5vW

I think there is one thing sacred in America and that is: FREEDOM of expression. If people wish to go around doing illegal things, they can be arrested and answer for it before the courts - anything else is 'fair game' under the US judicial system (but it sometimes is very biased and fails in its true role of real and proper process and justice). I honestly do not think this petition will garner 100,000 signatures. People around the world support these artists for having had the courage to stand up to Russian authority during the Olympics and having been beaten for it as well for standing up to oppression and violence and you likely will NOT see any heavy number of people against them voting on this petition. Russia may have hidden the press releases form its citizens when these artists were beaten and harassed - it may be something you might not be aware of where you are. . . What this group does is 'shock value' propaganda to get their message heard and seen no matter what it takes and you also have to see a lot of the good they have done as well... so people are NOT going to go about bashing them so readily. They have stood up to imprisonment, beatings and harassment by Russian authorities and people laud them for their courage and their message is making waves around the globe... -- so NO, in my opinion this is NOT going to get 100,000 signatures as many people support this group for what they have stood for and done in the past in the name of free speech to begin and freedom to let the world know what is going on. . . Their actions have brought situations of oppression in Ukraine and Russia at the forefront and they are now a respected 'voice' in the world even if they have weird and strange ways to go about doing things as artists. . .

People outside of Russia have another perspective... FREEDOM of speech is extremely important to democracy and all it stands for and it is one of the highest values people hold in America. Start playing around with violating such RIGHTS as 'Freedom of speech and freedom of expression' and you will get a wall of opposition in America I can most assure you. Artists are a 'special breed' in America... - they express themselves to 'shock' and send a 'message' via what is called 'artistic license' and get away with a lot of 'bad behaviour' in the course of it all - yet, as long as what they are doing does not violate the laws... they are 'tolerated' and even accepted for what they do. . . Artists are the 'pulse' of the world... much as journalists are the 'pulse' of their nation and the world as well in the manner in which they inform and pass on a 'message.' One might not always agree with what they say or express but oft it does make us 'think' and perhaps look at new perspectives - some good - some bad. . .

These artists coming to participate in the Ferguson protests is their manner of expressing 'solidarity' with the people against what they view is an oppressive, racist, biased and crooked justice system - as long as they do not break the law in what they are doing, there is actually nothing wrong with going into the streets to protest as long as you do not damage nor hurt anyone in doing so peacefully. If they break the law, they should be arrested just like anyone else would.

People will see this petition as not having much 'common sense' in light of all that I have expressed to you here... - hence, it will garner very little support I would think. . . I would be shocked if it did and frankly it will not accomplish much... - a waste of time and should be taken down in my view. As crazy as it may seem... it is those who raise their voices first against oppression and crimes against humanity who 'sound the alarm' first and the world is paying MORE ATTENTION to such voices than ever before... - especially, as history taught us the dire lessons of not listening sooner ...such as the Holocaust, the Holodomor [Death by famine in Ukraine caused by Russia's regime]; and others... where MILLIONS of innocent were killed. . . We have failed in North America to listen to news of torture, death by famine in Syria until some 10,000 photos were smuggled here to demonstrate to us the cost of the lives there while authorities here had previously remained deaf to this... thousands of innocent lives are being killed at this hour while this has yet to be stopped and is under the guise of cover... Now, the world is forced to examine those photos under investigation and has the responsibility to find those responsible for such atrocities. What we have seen in photos made public is NOTHING according to direct accounts I have heard from people who have family there... - the heart-wrenching truth shall come out someday. . . For things which deal with injustice toward the innocent, oppression, crimes against humanity, I do not really care HOW the message is sent out as long as it reaches the ears and eyes of those who CAN come to the aid of those who need us among our human brethren - these artists have done so... they have spoken and given a 'voice' to those who could not speak and need help and for this instead of bashing them, I would be more inclined to support them instead as many around the world would. . . They have by this done valuable and good work to show how Russia tries to stifle free speech and more. . . So, to me this petition is a 'dead duck' and will not go anywhere. If these artists were oppressed, you can be sure thousands would speak in support of them for all they have done and what they represent in their work. . . I would rather give the stage to one 'crazy' artist than to leave an innocent person wronged because we failed to listen to the 'message' early enough. . . When World War I ended, the world promised itself to 'never again' allow this to happen again. . . - yet, WWII came with much worse travesty against humanity and so did the Holodomor in silence behind the 'walls' of Russia even before then (1932-1933). . . I will stand the voice of an artist and let them go crazy all they want and if their message is righteous and good and serves a purpose toward the betterment of humanity I hope it would even be LOUDER! I have a strong opinion about this and respect that of others but on this one I shall not budge... When states control the press, television and all communications such as Russia does... their ills oft fail to surface as they should and it is via the work of artists - much as has happened in the course of history which becomes so invaluable to us then... - hence, I am not one to 'silence' them but rather one to stop and listen to what they have to disclose to the world. . .

A dire 'statistic' of our recent times ...over 80 journalists have died covering the conflicts around the world as they too tried to send a message across as to what was happening and what they saw. . . Artists and media oft die when regimes and groups which oppress come in and try to take over... - they are the first among the 'elite' to go to the Gulags, the gas chambers, etc. to silence them ...along with the clergy... the priests, the poets, the educators of society - teachers and university professors, the scientists, the 'intelligentsia' of their nations who dare 'speak up' ...along with anyone who has the courage to 'speak up' ...against those oppressing the innocent . . I say let the artists have a voice! We may not always like what we hear and see... but for those who have a message to help humanity take a look at itself - stop and realize what is happening elsewhere as well - and, ultimately do good by it ...no matter HOW they do it, as long as it harms no one, I am all for it! If they have to 'break the law' and cross the barriers of the legal system - especially, in an oppressive regime - to attract attention to themselves (which often people voicing against bad regimes do end up in jail), it is a laudable sacrifice in many cases in their attempts to give a voice to the innocent who cannot speak for themselves. . .

We rarely see artists getting medals for their raising awareness by raising and using their voice against injustice, crimes against humanity and oppressive regimes... they fight with words, art and music instead of swords... - they are the unarmed soldiers of the streets of society... like the clergy, the journalists, the educators, the scientists and so forth - yet, for every life they have contributed to save for helping to end wrongs against the innocent, they should be given medals for this!

The 'Fable de La Fontaine' ..'La Cigale' is a perfect example of the value of the chant of the poet in society... - artists do have a value in society... a purpose we oft do not readily see but is at the very core of our existence sometimes in the hardest of times. . . They are the 'voice' when society no longer can defend itself via means normally given to them before nor the courage to speak up when all is closed to them... the artist can cunningly sound the trumpet to raise enough fire under people listening to the power of their skilled words and expression to shock and obtain a result - the desired effect - as result to get help for those who need it. May it be a member of the clergy who pleads before the Pope; Charlemagne who comes to the defense of the Pope; the artists who raises funds for charity by singing 'We Are The World'; the punk band which shocks; the playwright who sends a message to society in a cunning manner to 'educate' the masses. . . let the message be heard... - for the single time it becomes an instrument to save a life, stop crimes against humanity, end oppression, injustice, killings, famine, etc. which we are not aware of or tries to raise funds to help the innocent, I want to be 'all ears' and shall add my voice to theirs in support of them. . .

This particular band has done some of this... - for their hand at this in the past, I would stay well away from signing such a petition and advise all those within 'ear shot' to do the same and would hope that they do more good work to raise their voice against oppression. They have spoken against people being arrested, stripped naked in the streets and left out in the cold, ridiculed, harassed, beaten, wrongfully imprisoned, stripped of fundamental rights and recourse to proper justice... - I would rather risk seeing them make a mistake and continue than to shut them up! They have acquired enough world respect that their voice now has a greater audience and reach and what they have to say 'matters' now for many as they have acquired credibility as well via videos which were shown of them being beaten while trying to raise public awareness for wrongdoings and people are not about to shut them up. . . Their very 'presence' has become a public threat to Russian authority even during the Olympics while it does not like to have their 'dirty laundry' exposed for the wrongs against their own people and their involvement in Ukraine as well. . . People who have any common sense in terms of human rights... who 'know' 'who they are'... will NOT sign this petition. . .

Food for thought... I hope my 'opinion' helps to shed light on the matter concerning these artists. . .

Best

How many slow-witted American celebrities have stuck their noses into other countries' affairs over the last several decades! This is a trifle.
Besides, I do not think this is a good enough reason in the eyes of the law.

Thank you, Tryzub Rurikid for you passionate speech! Thank you for unindifference and honesty. I was awaiting for some of this kind of answers, but not so detailed and bright. Amazing!

I can be calm about the future of this petition and future of these artists outside of Russia. But I can't be sure about their future here in Russia. The same with the life of the whole country and people, of all of us.

I can write this still, I can talk to you on this forum, but will it be long? How long?

By the way, your own country, Canada, refused me a visa this summer, though I was permitted to the Vancouver University and payed money for education. Without even looking at me and talking to me in interview in the embassy. Just only because of sanctions... Though we struggle here for freedom, visit demonstrations and protest meetings, having risk to our lives and comfort of existence. Just because of sanctions one manager in the embassy draw a cross in my profile, without thinking about what was hidden in every profile he ought to read, what destinies and lives, what personalities and plans for the future of every single man. Just only because I live in a country of Putin. But this is not my fault, it is a tragedy, the tragedy of the whole country. Why do these sanctions concern simple people?
The group of artists will not have such problems outside of Russia, because they have become very famouse. I maintain them in there struggle for freedom.
But what will be with simple, unknown russian citizens? That is the question.

P.S. Thanks to the USA - they gave me visa for 3 years and Europe too.

Dear Nataly,

I am glad the USA and Europe gave you a VISA. I am aware the VISA process in Canada is not perfect and even the USA and Europe too commit errors... - sometimes, you hit on someone who goes overboard when someone might be missing a tiny bit of information instead of asking them more questions and this is the failure of our dehumanized technological world of today.

I am aware of a case (which landed on the front page of the Ottawa Citizen newspaper this week) where a young artist coming to Canada for an exhibition - the first artist funded by the World Bank - and who is also a university professor was refused a VISA by Canadian authorities abroad.

UPDATE: The case is that of Hanifa Alizada a photo-artist and art teacher at Kabul University - she was refused a VISA to enter Canada to deliver a speech about life for Afghan women and to exhibit her work at a symposium (Jan. 22-25, 2014) called, 'The Shrinking World of Photography.' [A symposium organized by: the School of the Photographic Arts: Ottawa (SPAO) in partnership with: the Nobel Women's Initiative and MATCH International Women's Fund -- heavy sponsorship here!] Some of her photos were to be part of a body of work called, 'Discrimination' part of the planned symposium exhibitions at SPAO and SAW Gallery. Alizada participated in a globe-trotting exhibition sponsored by the World Bank on the subject of violence against women (a first for the WB). She has traveled to the USA, Europe, Asia, Denmark and India - and, organizers are shocked that she has been denied a VISA.

She was a former student of Professor Maureen Korp, PhD in Art History and Comparative Religions. Prof. Korp told me that while she had to cross the border to go to the Canadian High Commission in Islamabad, Pakistan to apply for the VISA to Canada, the Canadian authorities had to keep her passport [they need this to affix the VISA stamp label in it in the processing if it is granted] and remitted her a temporary 'certificate' to cross over back into her country. What the newspaper did NOT report is that this young woman was severely beaten in front of her fiancé who was travelling with her as the border patrols demanded 'bribe money' to allow here to get back home. This should have NEVER happened and I am working to help this young woman by using the power of my pen to raise awareness in the media to push the government to grant her the VISA she needs to come here for the exhibition in January. She has traveled all over the world - USA, Europe included - with no problem and there is no valid reason to refuse her this VISA to come here for her art and to deliver speeches here as well as she is an advocate for human rights - especially, the rights of women via her amazing photography. Her work has received fantastic reviews and she is a talented 'eye' in her work as an artist as well.

I wish you well in your studies and keep up the courage! Someday, life will shine for you! Get that diploma in your pocket and study hard and you will open doors you might have never imagined!

Best,

Christine

Well put, Tryzub. Much better than my facile contribution...unfortunately I am terribly jaded and cannot entirely be on board with this youthful idealism re. democracy and the arts (and I am married to a woman in the arts!) Good job and God bless!

Hmmmm....

Perhaps it is better to cry out against such a fellow like the current Neo-Soviet leader of Russia in Chruch than to pray for him.

Perhaps the truly immoral and vulgar action is the latter.

Congratulations, Tryzub and God bless you!

Nataly - that is truly sad!

Alex

Thank you, Christine!

Telling the truth, I was very surprised and shocked for the first time. It was the first country which didn't give me visa, though I've been travelled all over the world and had no problems with visas. I was accepted to the Canadian University for 1 year design-program, prepared a great amount of documents (so many, that I think no other countries ask to collect so much), passed IELTS Exam (Academic)...

I was really offended on Canada at that time.

But what I can tell you now.
I have a little Bible with a green cover at home. It is an old one from my very childhood. It has а tab with a depiction of Jesus Christ with lights from His heart. It is written on the tab: "Jesus, I trust in You!" https://elenasjustmythoughts.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/jesusheartshines.jpg
I remember when I was a child I took this little Bible in my bed and read it before I slept, understanding nothing of course. It was the Soviet time, this kind of literature was forbidden, nobody around me was knowing anything about religion and I was growing in a very atheist atmosphere. But nevertheless this little Bible came to my home very magically. Do you know from which country this Bible came to me? From Canada! My mom was taking part in the Soviet space exhibition in Montreal. She saw this little Bible in her hotel's room. It was in Russian, especially brought to her room by some kind Canadians. She took it and brought home through the border, risking much, because if it was found by the officers on the border she could have many troubles. She brought it home and it has become my first Bible in my life. At the tab inside of the Bible was the first depiction of Christ I ever saw! And my first pray was the pray on the back side of this tab in English. It is a chaplet of the Divine Mercy. I'm looking to this old little piece of paper right now. It is a part from " the Diary of the Servant of God Sr. Faustina - Note Book 1, p. 197" signed by the Joseph F. Maguire, Bishop of Springfield. This little pray came to Moscow (the USSR) from the UK, but was layed inside of the Bible from Canada.

I read the New Testament and the pray without geting the meaning as I understand now. But it was providential and very useful for raising my childish soul in Christianity in the future. God works in mysterious ways!

I want to thank God. I want to thank Canada for my first step into the world of faith. I want to thank that people, who brought this Bible in Russian language to the hotel room. I want to thank my mom, who wasn't affraid of taking it from the hotel and bringing it to the atheist USSR.
I didn't get Canadian visa now, but thanks to this country I've got something more important and tremendous - acquaintance with Jesus Christ in my very childhood in the atheist country, where there had been no conditions for religious enlightment and no books on this theme at all.

This is my first pray:

The Chaplet of the Divine Mercy
(for private recitation or ordinary rosary beads)
Begin with:
Our Father...Hail Mary..., The Creed.
On the five large beads:
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.
On the ten small beads:
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Conclude with:
Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
(Three times)

Dear Nataly,

Take comfort in knowing that there are MILLIONS of descendants of Anna Yaroslavna here in Canada and in other parts of North America via a woman called: Catherine de Baillon who came here in 1669. Many in the province of Québec do not know their Kievan-Rus' heritage - ...they are learning in time... since the publication of two books (in French) on this woman.

I am glad the little Bible your mother took home with her has become such a precious book to you! Indeed, there was a time when the mere possession of such a book could have caused your mother to be sent to prison or even killed! Your mother is a brave woman and her gesture is one of devotion which she wanted to share with you - you are blessed to have such a wonderful mother for risking so much to bring this home to you! Perhaps there is a reason Our Lord wanted you to have this little Bible coming from Canada... - it is at the very least a 'physical link' between you and Canada. . .

Take courage and maybe someday you will come to Canada - perhaps for a visit... - make sure you visit Québec City and the Basilica-Cathedral there... where the first marriage of the Rurikid Dynasty - Catherine's wedding 345 years ago this year on November 12, 1669 - occurred here on that site [The first in all of North America as well].

Peace be with you,

Christine