www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Introduction and Questions

Hi all,

I wanted to introduce myself and ask some questions (please feel free to move this post or tell me to repost elsewhere if it doesn't fit in here). I am a convert to Catholicism, about 8 years ago. I received confirmation, first communion, marriage, reconciliation, etc. in the Latin rite. In the city we live, there are 4 Latin Catholic Churches and one Byzantine Catholic Church. I actually went to the Byzantine Catholic Church for some holy week services the first full year I was Catholic, and have had a deep respect and love for them ever since.

Anyway, more about my background. I'm in my early 30s, have been married for almost 10 years, and have three children (5,3,6 mos). I'm deeply in love with my Catholic Faith. For whatever reason (maybe growing up Fundamentalist, although I have easily rejected most of their doctrine) I am a stickler for liturgy and for reverent conduct during liturgy. Because of extremely odd things going on in the parish (Latin) we attended here, we looked around and found a parish about 30 minutes away that served as a wonderful haven for my wife and I and our first child for the first couple years of his life. We were close friends with the priest, and to this day have fond and loving memories of our time there. We moved when my first son was about a year old and located in a larger city with a Cathedral (latin). We didn't enjoy the city, but we did enjoy the parish and especially some great experiences with the Knights of Columbus there in which I was heavily involved. (Sorry at some point I am rambling I know)

After a year, we moved back to our original town, have had two more children, and my oldest son is about to the age he needs to start going to CRE. Because the one parish we were members of is 30 minutes away, and their CRE classes are even further (probably 45 minutes), we tried to find a place closer to home. Never have we felt at home at the parish here in town. They have had about 7 pastors in the last 8 years, about one a year, insanely terrible fighting, a lack of respect (from my "traditional" view) for the liturgy, etc. even though they have had several great priests as individuals and who helped me and my family grow.

About an hour north, we have found a lot of solace in a parish that has the extraordinary form of the Latin rite. I hesitate to mention this because I don't want to be thought of or labeled as a "rad trad". But it is important because, as I will mention later, I feel pulled towards a traditional Latin spirituality, but not necessarily what is common today (at least in our area).

Anyhoo, on our search for a parish, we happened to find the Byzantine Catholic liturgy time convenient one Sunday about 4 months ago. Our children immediately fell in love, and we were struck with the reverence and beauty of the liturgy. We started attending the local parish (5 minutes from our house) approximately every other week.

I guess that's enough to bore you guys for now (happy to expand on things more if there are questions), but I have a series of questions which I would love to discuss more with you guys (both Catholic and Orthodox, but keeping in mind I am committed to being Catholic but very much respect our Orthodox friends) about this as I see a lot of wonderful and committed people here. My final disclaimer is that, even being Catholic 8 years, I still feel I have so much to learn, especially about the Eastern Churches, that I defer and apologize for any incorrect language. I also feel I am early enough in my discernment process that I could potentially find myself in an Eastern Catholic church legitimately.


In no certain order (and feel free to comment on anything you want!):

1) What are the differences between Eastern Catholic faith formation and Latin Catholic formation? Would my children (as Latin Catholics) be welcomed, confused, learn a lot, etc. from attending one? Would there be issues since they are not confirmed?

2) I've heard a ton of opinions on this, but if we wanted to really through ourselves into the Byzantine Catholic parish, how would we go about keeping holy days of obligation (assuming) they conflict at times with the Latin calendar?


3) (OK, very pertinent to coming up soon) - The Byzantine Church near us has a Christmas Eve liturgy. Does that fulfill the Holy Day of Obligation from the Byzantine side (I know it would for us)

4) What books should I read next? I finished the very good but very brief "The Eastern Catholic Churches " by Joan Roccasalvo- I have a PhD so I am addicted to reading - what else is good, in depth?

5) If my children were to switch rites, at what point do children regularly start taking the Eucharist (I know it is at baptism for the first time). Is this an issue when they visit Latin Churches (to get the priest to give the host to the children?)

6) I've heard both, but is it or is it not true that when you "switch churches" that it is permanent and you cannot go back to the Latin Rite?

7) Anyone else dealt with the issue that you might be in love with the Latin rite but in the traditional form (which may or may not be outdated) OR you may be called to an Eastern Catholic Church?

8) What happens to you (or your children) when you move to another place where there is no Eastern Catholic church? Do you switch to Latin Church? Or how do you handle the Holy Days - just go to daily mass in whatever Latin form is offered?

9) Do our children have to decide at a later date (since they were originally baptized in the Latin Church) whether to go back or not? What does it mean for their vocations (such as if they were to want to go into religious life or the priesthood?) What is the seminary and religious life in the US look like for Eastern Catholics?

10) Have any of you had the experience of "trying out" an Eastern Church for a while? Our current situation is thinking we might want to try to live life in the Byzantine Parish to the best of our ability for the next year - attending liturgy there, trying to keep the calendar, throwing ourselves at devotions, etc. - are there canon law considerations we need to be thinking of?

11) My main daily devotion is praying the liturgy of the hours office of readings (and occasionally other hours). What is the Byzantine or other eastern equivalent?

12) Is there an easy way to see the rules about fasting and abstinence and any other rules especially regarding advent, lent, and before taking communion? Anything else that might blindside us?

13) When do children make their first confession? Is there a guide (for me :) ) to confession in the Eastern (specifically Byzantine) rite?

14) Do you have any recommendations for home traditions (especially for young families/children) to do? For instance, we have some great resources to do advent prayer, but we realize it isn't technically "advent" in the Byzantine church. Are there good books and resources?

15) At the same time - good books/resources for mass? For kids (in the Latin Church they have the Magnifikid), but also for adults (I have a great daily mass missal, is there an equivalent?)


Can you tell I'm an academic from my rambling yet???

Hi InterestedThomas,

I'll take a stab at your questions, but I'm certain many others around here will have much to say as well.

1. As many of the answers to your questions will go - it depends! It depends largely upon the disposition of the priest and the parish itself, but generally a more orthodox Byzantine parish would not have a formation class in the same vein as a typical Roman Catholic parish might; our tradition emphasizes the learning of the faith through the living of the faith (regular participation in the life of the church, the cycle of services, prayer in the home, etc). Some Byzantine parishes do offer a regular Sunday school class, and some of our curriculum is quite good.

I would point out that it is our tradition to Baptize, Chrismate, and Commune all children from the age of infancy, so your children's learning experience would not include sacramental preparation as it would in an RC setting. They may, however, experience a solid preparation for confession, if that have not already begun.

2. All Catholics are able to keep Holy Days of Obligation (that are shared with Byzantines) by attending a Byzantine / Eastern-rite parish. If you are a Roman Catholic, on days such as the Immaculate Conception (which we do not observe), you'd need to attend an RC parish.

3.Yes!

4. This might be counter-intuitive, but the Eastern faith often is: don't read too much. That isn't to say Do NOT read, but the Byzantine/Orthodox faith isn't something to be learned, it is something to be lived. You'll do yourself a much bigger favor spiritually by attending as many services as you can and listening to the prayers of the service in your heart. Now, that said, I would recommend pretty much anything by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, anything from the Optina Elders (Orthodox, not Eastern Catholic), as well as the God With Us catechetical series (which is pretty good). That can be found here: http://store.godwithusbooks.org/catechism-of-the-eastern-church/

5. Your children cannot switch rites, but you can, following a process of paperwork and receiving the permission of your current Bishop. This can typically be a difficult process, but if you do switch rites your entire family would be able to receive Chrismation and Communion (if you haven't already).

6. Yes, it is permanent. The idea is that our faith isn't a cafeteria menu of "oh, this looks tasty, let's try this!" but instead should be a place of stability and commitment.

7. Of course - and many people on this forum can share their experiences.

8. Canonically, you'd have to attend a Roman Catholic parish. Because the differences of our perspectives can be at times very stark and are not merely a matter of aesthetics, many people will often attend Orthodox parishes (or become Orthodox) until they are able to return to a Byzantine Catholic parish. Many will like to debate that matter.

9. No - it isn't a matter for them to decide, as children they follow the rite of their parents. Later in life, if they want to become Roman Catholics, they likely could. As far as a vocation is concerned, the Married Priesthood has been restored to our churches, so they could enter into marriage AND pursue a religious vocation.

10. It isn't meant to be a shopping experience, and I would carefully examine your reasons for wanting to "be Byzantine". It is a life to be lived, not shopped. I understand the notion of wanting to carefully discern this kind of transition, but it should be done through prayer and repentance, not from a consumeristic exercise.

11. The same, but according to our Rite. There are many resources, books, and websites for praying the Hours. Eastern Christian publications offers a great daily package of material for those wanting to keep the hours. The daily cycle of services isn't meant to be prayed privately, but can be at home if they aren't served in church (I do).

12. Check with the local parish priest. Our Eparchial discipline is about the same as the local Roman practice nowadays.

13. It depends! Ask around.

14. I would recommend the book "Making God Real in the Orthodox Christian Home" by Fr. Anthony Coniaris: http://www.amazon.com/Making-real-Orthodox-Christian-home/dp/B0006COYQS Great book, lots of good ideas.

15. Depends on the jurisdiction you're attending. If you're in a Ruthenian/Byzantine Catholic Church, visit the Byzantine Seminary Press to order a service book. If you're visiting a Melkite Church, Sophia Press offers a variety of great service books. The Ukrainian churches have their own resources and publications as well.

InterestedThomas:

Christ is in our midst!! Welcome to the forum.

It might be best to schedule an appointment with the Eastern Catholic priest in the parish you have attended and ask him these questions.

Bob
Moderator

Thanks, I appreciate both reponses so far! THe first will take a while for me to read and process individually. The second, I would quickly reply that aboslutely we plan to. I will also say (and have no idea how this is different or similar in Byzantine Catholic parishes) that while I can point to awesome things I love about every priest I have been close with in the Latin rite, I can also say if I asked 10 of them a question I might get 5 different answers. Probably a product of growing up in a legalistic environment that can drive me crazy :)

Also - he doesn't live in our city, so until I feel I can go in with a more informed (or at least hearing diverse sides) I don't want to waste his time driving down here or staying later.... Its the best advice though!