www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Canonical Question involving sui iuris membership.

I'm a Latin Catholic (I think). I found out recently that my maternal grandfather was Slovak Greek Catholic, and that unless there was a formal agreement to Baptize my mother Latin, I would be Greek Catholic (my father is not Catholic). What canonical issues can I forsee, and how should I go about pursuing this?

My understanding is that you would be a Slovak Greek Catholic, and in the United States you would belong to the Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh. Canon 29 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches comes to my mind:


Was your mother baptized in the USA (where there are not many Slovak Greek Catholic Churches) or in Slovakia?

I would suggest getting in contact with the Eparchy of Passaic, since your profile says you live in New Jersey. Bishop Kurt studied canon law in Rome and is an expert. He or the eparchial canon lawyer should be able to help you figure out for sure.

The Eparchy's office phone and email is on their website [eparchyofpassaic.com]

Your baptism certificate MAY state if there were unusual circumstances (non-Roman Church.) But to be certain check the parish baptismal records. If there is no noting that you are Greek Catholic, then you are canonically Roman.

Welcome to the forum!

I'd have to disagree with Deacon Paul. The failure of the priest to record your mother as a Slovak Greek Catholic does not change the fact that she was.

If your father is neither Catholic nor Orthodox and your mother is Slovak Greek Catholic, you are of her Church unless it was formally agreed between her parents that she be enrolled in the Latin Church at baptism. You don't say if your maternal grandmother was also Slovak GC or Latin. (If the latter, such an agreement might have been made; if the former, I doubt that her parents could validly have had her enrolled to a Church in which they themselves were not enrolled.)

(emphasis added)

Your Mom's baptismal record is the key. The Canon does not suggest that your parents could have had you enrolled to a Church other than that of your mother, given that your Dad was not a Catholic.

As far as canonical issues, none jump out. What were you concerned regarding? If you are male, your children will be of your Church sui iuris, unless your wife is otherwise and you both agree, at time of baptism, to enroll the children in her Church.

Many years,

Neil

My mother was Baptized before 1983, back when (my understanding is) the paternal line system was automatic and the formal agreement to pick the mother's Church did not exist.

Do you happen to know how I could research if my grandfather got a transfer from the Holy See (seeing as he was Eastern, unlikely, but possible)?

Nelson, one can consider almost ALL of the parishes of the former Ruthenian Greek Catholic parishes of what is now the Archeparchy of the Byzantine Catholic Church of Pittsburgh as legal successors in interest to what you describe as the 'Slovak Greek Catholic Church'which did not exist when those parishes were founded. The villages from which a parish's founders exist, but not in the same geopolitical entity they did prior the first world war. Frankly the bulk of them trace back to pre 1914 and were organized through the efforts of the Eparchy of Muckacs (Today's Mucachevo) of that of Presov of Austria Hungary. So it is inaccurate to state that there are 'few Slovak Greek Catholic' churches in the United States.Today some parishes trace the villages of their founders back to Slovak, others to Transcarpathian Ukraine, a few to modern Hungary and even fewer to modern Romania (not the distinct Romanian Greek Catholic church I would add....) I would invite Deacon Lance to correct me if I am in error here. Consider today's 'Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church' which like the Byzantine Catholic Church comes from a common source in Europe known to Rome as the 'Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church.' Those parishes come from regions of Europe which were once Austro Hungarian or even the Russian Empire but today are found in Ukraine and Poland. It is a complicated topic, intertwined with European and American 'ethnic' identity politics and it has bedeviled the Holy See since the failure of the first 'Ruthenian' Bishop in America, +Soter Ortynsky, to keep the two 'halves' of his flock under one Bishop's omophorion. Politics, wars and shifting borders in Europe have made a mess of these issues and trying to fit them into the exact wording of your Code of Canon Law is like trying to fit a square peg into a round whole much of the time.

Do you happen to know how I could tell whether my family would have become Slovak Greek Catholic when the Slovak Greek Catholic Church was removed from the Ruthenians?

Neither the CCEO nor the CIC of 1983 are applicable; latinkatolicky's mother was baptized prior to their respective promulgations and the Codices are not retroactive. One would need to consult the legislation in force at that time for the Eastern Catholic Churches.

LK,

I should have picked up on 'Slovak' and clarified - sorry about that. Thanks, David, for doing so.


Even prior to the CCEO's 1983 promulgation, an Eastern Catholic child (your Mom) would (should) have been deemed as ascribed to the Church of her father, regardless of the Church in which she was baptized. And, that fact should have been documented in the metrical books of the church in which she was baptized, if the church was not itself an EC church. Was it always, no.

(Deacon John, even under the 1917 Code - and in line with the various promulgations against 'poaching', I'm virtually certain that she'd have been ascribed to her father's Church - unless someone invoked that 'tradition' of 'Mom's church gets the girls, Dad's gets the boys'. And, as regards that, LK hasn't said anything about his grandmother - was she Latin or GC?)


Unlikely indeed, as it was a tedious process back then. If he did, it should be documented in the metrical books of the church in which he was baptized (assuming that was in the US).


In this country, there were never any parishes specifically denoted as 'of the Slovak GCC'. (There were significant numbers of Slovak Latin parishes.) There were Greek Catholic parishes which principally served Slovak GCs and some that employed that terminology in their church name in the late 19th and early 20th century. However, Ruthenians were and are charged with canonical responsibility for the pastoral care of Slovak, Croat, and Hungarian GCs in the US and today one can only find a few scattered Byzantine (Ruthenian) parishes that parenthetically indicate in their name which ethnicity they once principally served.

Slovak Greek Catholics in the Old Country have had a distinct ecclesiastical entity since 1818 when the Eparchy of Presov was erected. It isn't that the Slovak GCC was removed from the Ruthenian GCC. but most Slav GC Churches are Ruthenian at their roots. Constantly shifting borders, however, meant that ethnicity, nationality, and ecclesiastic jurisdiction were seldom synonymous.

Whether your grandfather was Slovak or Ruthenian GCC is basically immaterial to the question of which Greek Catholic Church sui iuris you might belong, as there is no distinction in the US between them (nor in Canada, where the Slovak GCC has the canonical responsibility for pastoral care of Ruthenians). If your grandfather was born in this country - or married here - and you happen to know where, one of us can likely pinpoint the parish in which he woshipped.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

just to clarify, the CCEO was promulgated in 1990, and my point was one may not cite current ecclesiastical law with respect to church enrollment to cases which occurred before that law went into effect. Now the prior legislation may in fact be similar or even identical, but given the nuances of each code, the prior legislation is applicable and has to be considered.

Regards!

I will add to what others have posted.

1. The Catholic Church you are enrolled in is governed by the canon law in effect at the time of your birth. The same is true of your parents and grandparents. If your father is not Catholic, the Church in which you are enrolled in would be according to your maternal lineage. Since your mother is Greek Catholic and her father Greek Catholic, then you would be Greek Catholic (of the same jurisdiction as them). Any exception would have to have been noted in writing in the parish in which you were baptized.

2. What canonical issues can be foreseen? Probably none. If you are getting married in a RC parish and someone realizes that you are a Greek Catholic, then there may be some paperwork for the local RC pastor to marry you (technically you would be the responsibility of the local Greek Catholic pastor, who would work with his bishop to delegate authority to the RC priest to conduct the marriage ceremony). But often, if you are several generations away from the original Greek Catholic father, this is not even thought of. -- If you a man who is contemplating ordination or monasticism or a woman contemplating monasticism, and (for both) wanted to join a RC diocese/religious order you would need to apply for a formal "Change of Ritual Church". It is essentially paperwork by the Church to ensure good housekeeping than anything else.

3. If you wish to see if your grandfather make a formal transfer from the Greek Catholic Church to the Roman Catholic Church, contact the pastor at the parish he was baptized in. Any change should be recorded in their baptismal book. You can also check with the pastor of the parish he spent his life in. They might have some record of it if it occurred. Generally speaking, that almost never happened in earlier generations (even for marriages) unless the person was seeking ordination or religious life.