www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Byzantine/Eastern Rosary

Wow, Alex, thank you for sharing all that info with me. You certainly have done your homework, whereas I have not. I'll print out your post for valuable reference. I knew that the Eastern psalter is divided into kathismata, didn't know it was 20. Don't want to get into numerology anyway. Again, thank you for taking the time to fill me in.

Fact is, I pretty much took the idea of my post from a sede radio program, so, well, I find that sedes cherry pick what they will talk about, and would love to paint John Paul with the mark of the beast. That is the kind of stuff that is out there. Good to check in here for some solid fact. Nobody can say that they know what St. John meant about 666.

I have read all sorts of crazy stuff like John Paul the beast and Benedict the second beast, or whatever. Like all apocalyptic nonsense spewed by people with agendas, it always proves false since, hey, we're still here and so is the Church. Even Pope Gregory the Great sermonized (about MATT:24) that many of the signs were then already present.

Nobody knows but the Father. Our job is not to try to find out, but to be faithful to Him.

Regarding the Western rosary, I often have trouble getting started on it. It can seem so tedious. Once I start, it all flows fine. But when I really can't say the rosary, I find the Cannon to the Theotokos for the first 2 weeks in August, as well as her akathist from the Great Fast Fridays a very good alternative. Certainly both rosary and cannon/akathist are equally pleasing to Her.

Charlie

Good point. That also keeps the traditional connection with the 150 Psalms.

Alright, but out of curiosity do you include the Second Coming as one of the Glorious Mysteries?

Dear Charlie,

Yes, you are more than correct. The Rosary is a difficult form of prayer and I hope I didn't come across as some sort of expert on its praying because I'm not. I've struggled with it, left it and then came back to it.

It is precisely the variety of ways that one may pray it that has finally given me a personal method which has become both satisfying to me and also a source of continuing spiritiual meditation.

Montfort's method where one inserts some words into the Hail Mary is perhaps the best one and the one saints like Bl. Alain des Roches and others employed in their preaching of the Rosary.

Prof. William Storey, among his other quite inspiring devotional works, has published a book on how to pray the Rosary based on the early medieval models. He uses scriptural tags for the Hail Mary's headed by a reading from the Gospel that reflects the Mystery being considered. His "Book of Hours" contains similar formats for the various Chaplets that are easily adaptable to the Rosary Decade system.

What I'm going to tell you next is not boasting in the least but is about a miracle I believed I experienced some years ago in connection to the Rosary.

My wife and I were about to go on a Caribbean cruise from Ft. Lauderdale. She had the whole day to do some serious shopping there and so I went with her from store to store where I could find a chair somewhere to wait.

Having a one-decade Rosary with me (don't leave home without it!), I began praying it. Soon I exhausted the 20 mysteries and so began to come up with new themes.

It felt truly like I was in a spiritual garden contemplating various different aspects of the life of the Mother of God and Her Son.

By the time the day ended, I had prayed over 50 decades, something that time and circumstance permitted.

After our cruise, we were leaving our ship when we observed a number of passengers were walking out holding and angrily waving newspapers.

I got hold of one where the headlines were about . . . our ship.

In fact, five "security" officers that had checked us all on board turned out not to be security officers at all and happily for us they were arrested before the ship set sail with them.

I don't have to tell you who they were or what their intent with respect to the ship was. One woman nest to me said, "Why didn't they tell us about this?! I would never have sailed had I known . . ."

The Rosary protected not only my wife and I at that time, but a whole ship of innocent people.

Alex

Thank You for Posting to this thread. Especially like to Thank 2lungsambassador for starting this thread and all the Clergy for taking time out of their busy schedules to post great responses.

I have read over this thread briefly over the last few months and all the way through yesterday morning. It is this thread that encourage me to be a Forum member. This thread has brought up so many great points and things that I never even heard or thought of. Example would be that of "20 kathismata" which could be used as a point of defense for the 20 decade John Paul II Rosary.

There was one subject was not touch on and was wondering if some of you could give feedback on.

What is the Eastern Catholic/Orthodox/Coptic view of Praying while using mental images?

Thank you once more

The Eastern Churches don't like the use of mental images while praying.

That said, there is nothing wrong with using icons (of course not!) while praying and I've seen Rosary booklets with icons/pictures for each Mystery.

There is nothing wrong with using some additional words to each Hail Mary that reflect the Mystery being considered or to meditate on the Mystery before praying the decade.

St Louis de Montfort's method is EXCELLENT and which I've always used.

The scriptural Rosary is another excellent method.

Alex

Alex, but as a cradle Orthodox, I do love to listen to the mental gymnastics some Orthodox use to distinguish between acceptable prayer 'without' images and those 'horrid' Rosary images.... FWIT, both of my babas, as did most of their peers who started out as Greek Catholics and later became Orthodox for various reasons, were buried with their beloved Rosaries in hand. I doubt they got turned away as a result.

To bead or not to bead . . .

When I had my "Eastern awakening" in university on the Damascus road (actually, it was "Damascus Avenue", only wool prayer ropes would do.

Now, in my old age, I've graduated to all kinds of beads.

In fact, our Master Beadsman is developing beautiful prayer beads with the "tears of the Holy Theotokos" or "Job's Tears!"

Don't even care what the "Orthodox Police" in the UGCC would say about that either ...

Happy George Herbert's Day!

Alex

As our esteemed brother, Alex, pointed out, I do, indeed, make prayer beads from the "Panagia's Tears." As of this moment there hasn't been a great demand for them, but I do make them available.

In terms of a Byzantine rosary similar to the Latin/Dominican rosary, I think there is ample evidence that the devotion at the very least has enjoyed a good deal of popularity in Russia, if nothing else. Whether it is, in fact, a devotion that once was honored by all Christians, I do not know. Personally, I like to believe the rumors that the rosary originated in the East and was adapted and popularized by the great St. Dominic for the West.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. As St. Theophan the Recluse points out, it doesn't matter what prayer we are saying (so long as the prayer itself is orthodox). Written prayers themselves are aids to prepare us for the "prayer of the heart," or "infused contemplation," or whatever other title you want to give it.

There is the parish of Christ the King Orthodox Church in Tullytown, PA which is Western Rite, I believe, and which prays the Rule of the Mother of God of St Seraphim of Sarov. It has a parish Ward of the Society of Mary which is an ecumenical, primarily Anglican association.

Alex

Thank you Orthodox Catholic for your response. What are your thoughts if we only have one Icon and it does not relate to any of the Mysteries such as Holy Protection? Could it be proper to use the Icon for the meditations on the Mysteries?

On a different note Montfort has a place in my heart. Reading his book The Secret of the Rosary made me tear up :'( while reading a red rose for sinners.

I have been using his(Montfort's) Jesus clauses on and off for a few years. One thing that troubles me. Is that sometimes I think that my only focus in on the Jesus clause and not on the Hail Mary prayer. Granted our focus should be on the Lord Jesus Christ, but I feel like my Hail Mary's are treating our Blessed Mother as a "means to an end" which makes me feel rather discontented. Has anyone else had any similar experiences or thoughts on the matter?

On the subject Scriptural Rosaries. I love them, but rarely use them. One of the most interesting one's is the Rosary for the Holy Souls in Purgatory.

For people reading who do not have access or ever had the pleasure of reading Montfort here is his Methods of Saying the Rosary [montfort.org] If you enjoyed this please purchase God Alone his collected writings excluding most of his hymns.

Also, here is an example of a Scriptural Rosary [renewalministries.net]. There is no universal one and you can find countless examples in print or online.

Forgive me for any spelling, grammar, formatting, or word choice errors.

Posting links does not mean I endorse the content or the creator. Furthermore, there is no guarantee links are Catholic, Orthodox, or Wholesome.

Dear SearchingPilgrim,

You are so very obviously a person of prayer!

Yes, one icon is sufficient before which we can meditate and pray the Rosary which is a celebration of the Incarnation of the Son of God.

Your point on the "Jesus clauses" is one that I've thought about.

One can become so "excited" about the clauses that the recitation of the Hail Mary's suffers.

There are a couple of ways, in my simple experience, by which we can overcome this.

First, we can use a single clause per decade. That way, the novelty of additional, new clauses won't tempt us to "get through" the Hail Mary's (and Our Father's).

OR we can have the clauses written out in front of us so that we don't immediately try to focus on the next clause when we haven't properly completed the Hail Mary with the clause we are currently considering.

OR we can develop a rhythm for praying the Hail Mary's with pauses in between the words and simply discipline ourselves in that.

Of all the methods he proposed, St Louis de Montfort actually preferred the clausular Rosary as it did help him focus on the Mysteries. The original clausular Rosary required the use of a book as proposed by Blessed Alan des Roches and there is an English translation of it.

Finally, it is good to pause after reciting the clausular Hail Mary to listen to the silence.

All this makes for a meaningful experience with this form of prayer rather than a Rosary that is recited carelessly and hurriedly and which turns it into a prayer that lasts "for five decades . . ."

Alex

Thank you Orthodox Catholic for your advice. Pausing through out the Hail Mary seems to be difficult for me, but imagine it will bear much fruit. What are your thoughts on Montfort specifically offering decades for particular graces as in Method 1 and 3?

Not sure if a "person of prayer" is warranted. I apologize if my response lacked humility or showed superficial piety. It just easier to open up and talk about spirituality on a Forum anonymously.

[quote=Phillip Rolfes]
In the end, it doesn't really matter. As St. Theophan the Recluse points out, it doesn't matter what prayer we are saying (so long as the prayer itself is orthodox). Written prayers themselves are aids to prepare us for the "prayer of the heart," or "infused contemplation," or whatever other title you want to give it. [/quote]

Thank you for bringing this point up.

It is amazing how organized formal prayer can change our internal dialog and in turn change our thinking.

Do you have a quote in English from this saint on this topic?

We should always pray for graces and Montfort sets us a great example.

It is when we show our dependence upon God and our continual reliance on Him to supply us with everything we truly need and in accordance with His Will that we give Him the greatest glory.

And, yes, you are truly a person of prayer, a true "searching pilgrim" which should be a source of joy, wonder and contentment for you!

Alex