The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
EasternChristian19, James OConnor, biblicalhope, Ishmael, bluecollardpink
6,161 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,799 guests, and 106 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,508
Posts417,509
Members6,161
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 73
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 73
Deacon Peter,

For those of us who do not read Ukrainian, could you tell us a bit more about this document? Does it replace the CCEO?

Messdiener

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
The first rule set down by this document is that if you don't understand Ukrainian - then you must learn it! grin

Alex

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
Originally Posted by Messdiener
Deacon Peter,

For those of us who do not read Ukrainian, could you tell us a bit more about this document? Does it replace the CCEO?

Messdiener

It does not replace, but supplement the CCEO. For example, it specifies that the person who is elected Head of the UGCC must be at least forty years old and have been a priest for at least ten.

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,685
Likes: 8
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,685
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
Originally Posted by Messdiener
Deacon Peter,

For those of us who do not read Ukrainian, could you tell us a bit more about this document? Does it replace the CCEO?

Messdiener

It does not replace, but supplement the CCEO. For example, it specifies that the person who is elected Head of the UGCC must at least forty years old and have been a priest for at least ten.
Why is there a rule for minimum age and number of years ordained? Even a laymen theoretically could be elected Pope, why bother with such a written rule?

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Why is there a rule for minimum age and number of years ordained? Even a laymen theoretically could be elected Pope, why bother with such a written rule?
To be honest, I don't know why that was their choice. On the other hand, though, I can't see any reason that it needs to be the same as the Roman policies.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,405
Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Why is there a rule for minimum age and number of years ordained? Even a laymen theoretically could be elected Pope, why bother with such a written rule?
To be honest, I don't know why that was their choice. On the other hand, though, I can't see any reason that it needs to be the same as the Roman policies.
This is a prudential judgment. Not just everyone is elected Pope, so not just everyone is elected head of the UGCC. The UGCC is perfectly within its rights to define who can be elected head of the UGCC.

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,685
Likes: 8
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,685
Likes: 8
I'm not sure that such a 'rule' is prudent. Sure, in practice or a guideline, but canon? What happens in a hypothetical emergency and a faithful 38yr old imprisoned priest is selected underground? Is he canonically unelectable?

Granted, I'm not favorable toward minimum age requirements for deacons or priests either. I prefer the individual judged on his character first, then ability, and finally possibility to be educated not necessarily in a formal academic manner. I'm also not favorable toward mandatory resignation at whatever age either.

Last edited by Michael_Thoma; 04/24/15 02:00 PM.
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Messdiener
Does it replace the CCEO?

Of course not - and it couldn't just because of its size. CCEO has 1546 canons while the Particular Law in question has only 146 canons.

Generally this is the second version (the first one was published in 2001) of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic "attachment", "appendix" or "supplement" to the CCEO. There are some places in the Code mentioning "the particular law of a sui iuris Church" - and this PL in general applies to those. For example can. 247.2 of the CCEO states: "The protosyncellus and the syncellus are to be celibate presbyters unless the particular law of their Church sui iuris has established otherwise" and our Particular Law has established otherwise (in both versions).

My own opinion is that this second version is somewhat better than the first one. Some prescriptions may have significant effect in the life of an average parishioner. I have in mind feasts' and fasts' regulations, which show a clearly Easternizing tendency. Fasts has been made more severe, feasts of obligation are the 12 great feasts (dvonadesyati svyata) and so on. In this aspect our authorities made IMHO a very bad mistake ignoring the proper and rational vacatio legis. Just imagine - the law formally promulgated at the end of March, published in the Web on April 2nd, comes into effect on April 7th. April 7th is both Annunciation and Great Tuesday - and the new law makes the whole Great Week period of abstinence from meat (former regulations of 1960s mention only the Great Friday as a day of abstinence from meat and dairy products, which of course has been maintained). In my opinion it is a manifestation of Bolshevik mentality, a phenomenon not unusual in Ukraine, but very painful if met in the UGCC, a church severely oppressed by the Bolsheviks in the past and trying to spread in present-day Ukraine values of the Western civilization.

Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Even a laymen theoretically could be elected Pope

This seems to be just an urban legend. Who is the Pope of Rome - he's a bishop/, and in fact the most important bishop in the whole Church (Caholic Communion). So IMHO it is obvious that the candidate to the papacy should be a bishop or a clergyman who meets canonical requirements for episcopacy: unmarried presbyter for at last 5 years, age 35 or more and so on.

Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
I'm not sure that such a 'rule' is prudent. Sure, in practice or a guideline, but canon?

I do wholly agree with you. BTW, this canon was a part of the previous version (2001) as well.

Let's check the history of the Church who adheres to the tradition od the Brest Union of 1596. Do you know who the last primate elected from presbyters was? Michael Rahoza, i.e. that Metropolitan of Kyiv-Halych who entered into the Union (died 1599). All his successors were bishops at the time of election/nomination! Without any canons enforcing such a policy!

And if we check the dates of life of the Servant of God Andrei Sheptytskyi, our greatest primate ever (or one of two-three top primates), we easily find that he was ordained bishop at the age of 34 and appointed Metropolitan of Halych at the age of 35. So he would be excluded for such an appointment under the particular law mentioned above. I think that any further comment is needless...

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
Originally Posted by Messdiener
Deacon Peter,

For those of us who do not read Ukrainian, could you tell us a bit more about this document? Does it replace the CCEO?

Messdiener

It does not replace, but supplement the CCEO. For example, it specifies that the person who is elected Head of the UGCC must at least forty years old and have been a priest for at least ten.
Why is there a rule for minimum age and number of years ordained? Even a laymen theoretically could be elected Pope, why bother with such a written rule?
Canons establishing minimum ages for ordination are among the most ancient canons.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
The new particular law is now available in English as well:

http://catholicukes.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Particular-Law-of-the-UGCC.pdf

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 77
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 77
Originally Posted by Deacon Peter
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Even a laymen theoretically could be elected Pope

This seems to be just an urban legend. Who is the Pope of Rome - he's a bishop/, and in fact the most important bishop in the whole Church (Caholic Communion). So IMHO it is obvious that the candidate to the papacy should be a bishop or a clergyman who meets canonical requirements for episcopacy: unmarried presbyter for at last 5 years, age 35 or more and so on.

It certainly is unlikely to happen, but I don't think there's a true impediment to a layman being elected. It most likely could only happen like it did in the middle ages - rampant abuse in the Curia. Pope Benedict IX was elected somewhere between ages 11 and 20 in 1032; John XI, John XII and Gregory V were also all under 25. So it's been a millennium since something like this happened, but it remains possible.

The canonist Edward Peters brings forward some interesting mid-20th century canonists [canonlawblog.wordpress.com] who assert that any baptized Catholic male with the use of reason and the capacity and willingness to accept ordination to the episcopacy could be validly elected. This (even more theoretically!) includes married men.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by MalpanaGiwargis
This (even more theoretically!) includes married men.
What!? Who ever heard of a married Pope?? cool


Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0