www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Old-Ritualists Forum Erie Old Rite Church Russian Troika Festival

This weekend, the Russian Orthodox Old Rite Church in Erie, PA, will hold its Seventh Annual Russian Troika Festival. Check out its schedule, menu, and entertainment.

http://www.churchofthenativity.net/troika/

While I admire the Old Rite Orthodox, especially those of Bela-Krinitsa and the priested groups, there is still a nagging question in my soul about the wisdom of separation based on what APPEAR to be external matters in which there should be tolerated variations.

St Maria Skobtsva of Paris, martyred by the Nazis in 1945, who established soup kitchens and charitable outreach to very many people in dire need and who gave herself to die in place of her Jewish friend, wrote about the Old Believers of her day.

She noted that with all the gorgeous iconography and traditions the Old Believers maintained (and I believe she was talking here about the priestless variety), she found it telling that there was no Eucharist being celebrated or received by them.

St Dmitri of Rostov and others wrote vociferously against the Old Believers along basically the same lines.

I would just like to ask your thoughts on how we can understand the Old Believers devotion to rites and rituals to the point of breaking communion with the rest of the Church of Christ? Is this something which would be praised by our Lord Himself?

Alex

You ask a very important question (from the Catholic point of view), but you must understand the issue of rites and rituals from the Old Believers perspective.

1.) The symbols (or signs) of Orthodoxy were believed by them to be proper Public Devotion, Sacraments and Sacramentals. When these were changed by Nikon, Old Believers claimed that the priesthood and the Eucharist were lost. David Scheffel in his book IN THE SHADOW OF THE ANTICHRIST explains it better than I can, especially pages 131 to 162.

2.) Some Old Believers lived in isolated, rural areas where they had only rare visits from travelling monks. So, they were used to doing without the Eucharist and instead reciting the sections of the Holy Liturgy which laymen were allowed to say. This became the religious service which their nastaviks (prayer leaders) now conduct. The Old Believers in Erie are descendants of those priestless Russians who lived near Suwalki in what is now northeast Poland and then emigrated to western Pennsylvania in the early 20th century.

3.) Even in the Roman Catholic tradition, there are some post-Vatican II schismatics who claim that the new Mass rite is invalid and that only the old Latin Mass ritual is valid. They believe that they are the true Church of Christ. So, we too have had some members who overemphasized rites and rituals.

While I admire the Old Rite Orthodox, especially those of Bela-Krinitsa and the priested groups, there is still a nagging question in my soul about the wisdom of separation based on what APPEAR to be external matters in which there should be tolerated variations.

Luckily the concern is unneccesary in this case as Erie's Church of the Nativity is a ROCOR parish (and therefore in Communion with the MP and the EP.)

OK, I've ordered Scheffel's book and look forward to reading it!

Thank you for your post!

Alex

The parish does have an icon of the Old Believer Hieromartyr and Confessor, St Avvakum - but I don't know if he is liturgically commemorated by it.

There are numbers of the "United Believers" or "Ednoverie" who will sometimes be quite critical of St Avvakum (that he created an unnecessary schism etc.).

I love the Old Believer Saints and have them in my icon corner, as well as their beautiful traditions!

Alex the old Believer

I've read Scheffel's fascinating book on the Old Believers.

There were some glaring errors in his presentation which don't take away from his argument, although they were a bit disconcerting (e.g. his take on Monophysism reducing Christ to being a mere man - that is Arianism and not Monophysism).

Certainly, the counter to the Old Believers was made by the saints and theologians of the Kyivan Baroque, namely, that their emphasis on ritualism indicated a lack of understanding of theology etc.

He shows that the Old Believers maintained, among other things, the original principle of Orthodoxy - right belief being indicated through right worship - where the rituals of worship signify theological truths and to change them was to change Christian faith, thereby falling into heresy.

Where the argument stops short in the case of the Old Believers is when a fundamental harmony being right belief and right worship is lost. This is shown when the Old Believers condemned the Nikonians as graceless heretics whose sacraments were not only wanting, but, in fact, agencies of the devil . . .

They could not see beyond their own rituals as harbingers of true faith and accept that other Christian cultures could be expressing the same Orthodoxy/Catholicism through their own set of rituals and forms of worship.

Thus, if this is what Old Orthodoxy is about in the strict sense, for them to unite with mainstream Orthodoxy would be to surrender Truth. Indeed the united Believers are those who, in the eyes of the Old Orthodox, have done just that.

That is the challenge in any drive to reunite them. Their commitment to ritualism is both their strength and their weakness.

Alex

One other point . . .

The author also mentions that every Old Believer in the community he studied held the view that Christ did NOT suffer physically or experienced physical pain during His Crucifixion . . .

They say He truly suffered mental anguish etc. But to affirm that our Lord suffered physically would be to deny, in their view, that He is God (!)

Is this not to deny that our Lord wasn't fully human, as well as Divine? How is such a position even Orthodox?

Alex

That seems like a curious case of Docetism, to me.

I've compared this information with the published doctoral dissertation of the Rev. Dr. Prof. Paul Meyendorff "Russia, Ritual and Reform."

The good professor makes NO mention of this stance on Christ's suffering. This could be a local conviction based on misinformation etc.

As mentioned above, the "United Believers" maintain all their traditions in union with Orthodoxy and this matter has never even been a subject of discussion before.

Again, I hope Polish American can weigh into this at some point with his insightful commentary, but it truly does seem to be a local aberration.

Alex