www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall 1965 - The End of An Age

I clearly remember some years back, in prayer, I saw Vatican II end - there had been a veil covering it - as though it was the veil in the Temple tearing. As it tore, I saw what the Church had been holding back, keeping the world from so drastically changing in the wrong direction. The first thing I saw, as a visible sign, were the Beatles and Viet Nam. Then invisibly, unseen by the world, busting through were many of the things discussed in this article. Just thought I'd share that vision, for your own discernment.

.... The founding of the journal The Public Interest in 1965 signaled the beginnings of neoconservatism. That was to herald later divisions in the conservative movement and be a major influence on future Republican presidential administrations (especially in foreign policy).

Vatican II concluded in 1965. As far as the Church in the U.S was concerned, that meant that right after that the much-discussed misinterpretation of what the Council meant and the misapplication and even twisting of its decrees was to begin. It also meant that the secularization of a significant part of the American Catholic community—getting us to the “I’m Catholic, but I can believe what I want” mentality—began.

As Allan Carlson writes, 1965 was also the last year of rising fertility among American Catholics. In the years immediately following, Catholic fertility plummeted, especially among the better educated, and was no longer even related to frequency of Mass attendance. The anti-natalist and contraceptive ethic became implanted among Catholics and, of course, widespread dissent followed from Humanae Vitae three years later.

1965 was the decisive end of the “old order.” It was also the beginning of the current age that now rushes at us with a vengeance and threatens to overwhelm us....
End of the current age [crisismagazine.com]

I saw it all, since I was a senior in high school when the Council ended. It was as if the entire church had lost its collective mind. Bishops returned from the Council giddy with the "wonderful" things they had done for us - at least that's how one bishop I knew put it. If some of the "blesseds" and "saints" who were at the helm during that time and after had held firm and not made compromises with the world, think how things might have been different. While they were supposedly blessed and saintly, they surely were dumb as dirt in any practical sense. But as I have heard, we get the leadership we deserve.

Interesting article.

I think it's reasonable to consider that there is a wide difference between what the Vatican II Council taught and what was done with that teaching. And, too, I think sometimes the bishops are blamed for societal change they did not cause (even though they did not always respond well to that change).

I often wonder about the perspective bishops have of the Church and the things they do in it. It seems to me if you are doing "A" and the people are coming and being build up in the Lord then you should keep doing "A". But if you for some reason stop doing "A" and start doing "B" and the people disappear and forget Church T/teachings then you ought to stop doing "B" and return to doing "A".

About 5 or 6 times a year I attend Mass at the RC parish in my neighborhood. Doing that offers an interesting snapshot of change over time. In the late 1980s only one of the seven weekend Masses had music - the rest were recited. About 15 years ago music had been added, but it was more like the joke "Four Songs and a Mass" (none of the liturgical texts were sung). Last time I was there on one of the icy winter Sundays they sang the Gloria, the Sanctus (in Latin), the Lord's Prayer and the Agnus Dei (in Latin) - in addition to the four songs. And the singers and the singing are quite good. Clearly the bishop of the local RC diocese is moving in the right direction. (I won't mention how annoying it was to see the Eucharistic Ministers line up at the little preparation table next to the holy table and each pump the bottle of hand disinfectant and spend a minute rubbing their hands with the stuff.)

Yes, I moved from northern Virginia a couple of years ago - I think I saw the liturgy move in a positive direction in many parishes over the seven years I lived there. Unfortunately, the RC diocese to which I moved doesn't seem to be on the same track...

You raise an excellent question in regard to the perspective of the bishops. It seems so obvious to me that many of the changes were misguided and failures; I just don't understand how so many bishops don't see it. On the other hand, it's a bit misleading to draw the line at pre-V2/post-V2, since the collapse in Mass attendance, receiving the sacraments and priestly and religious vocations had begun in Europe before the Council - the comparatively greater religiosity of America seems to have helped hold back that development for a while, but it has certainly made its impact here.