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This is one of those situations where I suppose we are *allowed* to hope for that, but that's a very recent position, and the whole tradition seems opposed to such an idea. The liturgical tradition gives very little reason to think, for instance, Judas was saved. The threat of Hell loses a bit of punch if no one goes there, after all. I'm the furthest thing from a Jonathan Edwards redivivus, salivating at the thought of sinners cast into the flames, but the overwhelming majority of Christian writers in every era have seemed to think there are (many) people in Hell, and I don't know that I have found good reason to doubt them! Lord, have mercy!

I suppose Ive come around to universalist-ish thinking through this: God IS love - love is not just one of his traits - he actually is love itself.....and he wants us to return that love, freely...he created us to glorify him....He is also omniscient, and knows what will happen through time and history....A loving God would not create a world in which he knew the vast amount of His children would suffer....He also wishes that all men be saved, and his wishes cannot be thwarted....so its possible we all must go through a process in this life of purification, of being urged to accept Him.....but that there may be people with such evil hearts they can never be turned? Anyway I do have a very hopeful stance on slavation, as the entire thing breaks down for me without it...

Zaida:

Christ is in our midst!!


He didn't. Our choice to separate ourselves from His Plan--aka s-i-n--caused the suffering that exists in this world.

As far as an eternal suffering, to think that there is not accountability flies in the face of the fact that God is also perfect justice and this cannot be separated from His live.

There is also the free will that He gave each of us. To force everyone into His Kingdom would do an injustice to those who freely don't want to be there. And that participation in His Kingdom starts now with adherence to His commandments.


Yes, they can be thwarted. We do it every time we sin: the mistaken notion that "separation/self-centeredness/selfishness is normal/nice/necessary. The lie out there is that we can all go our own way and expect some pushover diety to allow it all to happen. That attitude would allow for some pushover being that is not the Creator we have had revealed to us. Like an invitation to the White House for Thanksgiving dinner, the invitation to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb is open to all, but not all will accept the invitation to follow the Way (Jesus and His commandments) there.


It is true that this pilgrimage is a period of testing. What happens in the heart of each one, only the Lord knows. But what it interesting is what the saints have had to say, not to mention the Lord Himself while He walked here in the flesh. St. Ambrose of Optina has been quoted as saying the "God calls us (out of this life) for one of two reasons: either we are ready or He can no longer do anything with us." Jesus told us that "many are called but few are chosen."

So it's not up to use to speculate about others or all persons. It is up to us to make sure we are on track with our relationship with Him now so it can continue for eternity.

There is another thread on the forum asking the question "Do you believe in a literal Hell?" I think it's related.

https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbt...e_Do_You_Believe_In_A_Literal#Post281382

Bob

Where do you imagine you’ve been?

Ah, I see. You mean that the grey town with its continual hope of morning (we must all live by hope, must we not?), with its field for indefinite progress, is, in a sense, Heaven, if only we have eyes to see it? That is a beautiful idea.

A number of months ago I 'wrote' some disparaging and disrespectful remarks regarding Russian Orthodox Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev on a thread on Byzcath. I regret having written those things. They can only have stemmed from frustration and pride. In this, the Byzcath Forum, where I wrote those remarks, I want to publicly recant those remarks, admitting my utter lack of qualification and humility which led to this. Here, I ask Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev's forgiveness, and I will write a letter to him as well, seeking his forgiveness.

Ivanov
A Grateful Orthodox Christian in the Greek Church

No GD fans here?

If I knew what "GD" is . . .

Alex

Grateful Dead?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grateful_Dead

The famous Ben&Jerry's Ice Cream 'Cherry Garcia' was named in homage of the above's late front man.

I don't think PeterJ is referring to the infamous street gang with the same acronym!

The Great Divorce. The preceding was a snippet of one of its conversations.