www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Where do faithful Catholics find like-minded life partners?

I'm hoping there are other Catholic parents on this forum as I have a number of children currently looking for faithful Catholic life partners but not having much success. Most girls seem to be feminists, not wanting to be stay-at-home moms, never mind having lots of children and most young men seem to want a hottie not a wife/stay-at-home mom.
Where do/did your children find a spouse? Most of the people at our parishes are older or the young people fit the above descriptions. On-line dating sites, even supposedly Catholic ones seem to produce the same sort of young people.
Let me assure you, as a family we are in permanent novena mode over this but after years don't seem to be getting far. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Christ is in our midst!!

Welcome to the forum.

This is the problem these days. The advice I gave my son and daughter was that the Good Lord would send the right choice in His own good time.


If you're setting criteria like this, I believe you are doomed to failure. There aren't that many young women out there who have this as their vision. When my wife and I were preparing for marriage--40 years ago--the priest told both of us that economically it was not possible for a family to have only one person working: basic economics. If there is university debt, one can expect to work for the whole of one's life. Then there is the possibility of the breadwinner dying unexpectedly--something I've seen a lot of--and the stay-at-home mom is suddenly required to find work. Problem is that the later one tries to enter the work force, the more difficult it is; even mothers re-entering after child birth find it very difficult.

As for young women being "feminists," I wonder what you mean. If you mean that a young women is supposed to be a wall flower who has no opinion, you might want to be looking in an Amish community for that traditional mindset and upbringing.

Then there is the idea of finding "faithful Catholic life partners." That is a roll of the dice. Many of the "Catholic" families I know of have little in the way of what one would call Catholic living out of the Faith that one would have found 50 years ago.

You may have set your sights high toward an impossible goal. And did St. Paul not say that the faithful spouse might convert his/her spouse? My advice is to raise a good Catholic and let the Holy Spirit take on the task of molding a Catholic family.

It doesn't help that the people who report on religious practice tell us that even those raised in good homes may abandon the Faith later. In the U.S., the second largest group of people identify as "none"--no religious affiliation.

Bob
Moderator

One suggestion: I don't know what your financials are, but (and maybe I'm being terribly politically incorrect here) traditionally women sought their MRS degree at college. Most are able to offer some financial assistance especially for good students. So you might consider the more traditionally minded Catholic colleges: Christendom, Thomas Aquinas, Franciscan, U of Dallas, Benedictine, Thomas More--and even one in Canada, Our Lady Seat of Wisdom. Same goes for the boys in your family--there are some really lovely young women at all these places. I live near Christendom and know a great many graduates and their spouses--the marriages for the most part (well over 90%, I think) work out splendidly. Alas, plans for a Byzantine Catholic College to be named Transfiguration fell though for lack of funds!

Bob

I don't think the priest knew what he was talking about. It seems he was simply echoing the message that was being sent by the media and popular culture of the time. Each family needs to make this decision based on their own circumstances, but I'm here to tell you that it is possible. My husband and I were not young when we married. We were both in our 30s and financially stable. We had no college debt, having both gone to public colleges when it was still possible to work your way through school. I was well established in my career as a social worker when we married, but we both knew that we wanted me to stay home with the kids when they came, and come they did. In spite of the fact that we were in our 30s when we married, we've been blessed with 6 children. It is a struggle at times to make ends meet on a teacher's salary with a family of 8, but we live without debt (other than our house) and our children are fed and clothed and have a few extras in life. We are well insured, so if something tragic happens, I will not need to return to work. True, we don't have money for travel and a lot of extras, and our children are going to be on their own for college (they're welcome to live at home),but that has more to do with the size of our family than the single income.

My girls (and boys) know that there is nothing wrong with being a working mom, but they also know that there are sacrifices involved with either choice.

babochka:

Christ is in our midst!!

Sorry I have to disagree with you. We are currently living out that piece of wisdom.

My career's salary scale depended on it being 60% of what it took a family of four to live on. The reason my wife decided to stay out of the work force was that her father "ordered" her to do so. (An old ethnic family whose head thought he knew everything about everything.) Our children were deprived of many things. My savings attempts were always undercut. And now at the age of 65, my wife finds herself exhausted every day since she's had to find work that pays far below her educational level. Without a pension, she will work until at least 80 or death, whichever comes first. I, too, will be working for the next 10 to 15 years because of her father's short-sighted demands. Did I mention that I was injured at work, spent three years in therapy, and lost any hope of pension when the business I worked in was sold before I could return?

Subsequent clergy have called my wife's father "bad and wrong," "evil," and "demonic" for his ongoing interference in our lives, finances, marriage, and careers. (His interference is still felt today, 25 years after he died.) I should add that my wife passed up two solid job offers that would have had her retired now with a good pension--jobs that came with the help of very well-placed people in the communities in which we have lived.

So we will have to agree to disagree about the idea proposed. BTW the reason that people are supported by financial aid for their college education is for the future benefit they will be to society. So to take advantage of an education and then purposely to decide not to use it is equivalent to theft IMHO.

Sorry for the rant, this is a very touchy subject for me.

Bob

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Thank-you all for your replies!

I see babochka your experiences are similar to ours and I thank you for responding! A single income family does have occasional struggles (yet everyone does in one way or another) but the benefits, especially to the children and the unity of the family cannot be measured in dollars and cents. A mother is the spiritual heart of a family and an anchor of security for all the family members.
Having said that though,I am always surprised that generally, people have been brainwashed into thinking that a college/university education is the only path in life. My husband and sons are papered journeymen and make a comfortable living. No education debt plus job security. Having a stay at home wife is not a dream luxury but a necessity in today's day and age.
When I said "feminists" I mean they prefer a career to having a family and want to compete with men for dominance. It may be "old fashioned" but so far as I can read, the Bible praises women for living their biology and what God fitted them best for. The vast majority of young women we've encountered are brash and aggressive not nurturing or desiring self-sacrifice which is the heart of motherhood, not to mention these are Christian aspirations!
While I compassionate theophan for having had some unpleasant and unfortunate experiences from which he is still suffering, God made men and women with different strengths and weaknesses on purpose. Otherwise we would all be andromorphs with the choice as to which spouse would have children and which would work outside the home. I believe the "criterion" I outlined are ageless not outdated and 200 years from now will seem normal again in a re-Christianized society built by those whose roots were formed in Godly households.

But don't you see that your situation is completely different from mine? Nobody pressured me to quit my job. It was a choice, a decision that my husband and I made together and it has worked well for our marriage. We could together decide for me to go back to work anytime, and we've talked about it. I've been thinking about driving for Uber. But I have a little one to care for and that's just where we are. We've made choices. I had a baby when I was 46 and my husband was 49. We figure he can retire when she's out of the house. We'll be so used to spending $1500 a month on feeding 6 kids, retirement might seem like living in luxury. And yes, it is hard sometimes, seeing our double-income younger siblings with their two kids easing into early retirement.


Ah, it's okay. I'm ranting right back at you because this is also a touchy subject for me, particularly when I perceive I'm being told that I'm not making a contribution to society.

I just think that we need to support each other in our society in making whatever decision is best for and works for our own family. I'm sorry you weren't supported in that in your own family. It would be equally egregious if someone had chosen to stay home and the career-woman mother-in-law harrassed her into taking a job just because she needed to "not waste her education". Or if someone had chosen to work because she loved her career, even though she could easily afford to stay home, and she was shamed for not wanting to be with her children 24-7.

(I keep trying to get the formatting right on this post and I'm running out of time to edit. I hope you can still read it.)

I have no problem with women working outside the home and I'm pretty sure God doesn't, either. Working mothers are still the heart of the home and they are not usurping their husband's masculinity by doing so. We have a number of examples of holy women, mothers even, who worked outside the home. Some even held positions of considerable esteem and authority. (St. Gianna Molla comes immediately to mind.) The Bible speaks of Lydia, a seller of purple. Her job must have taken her to marketplaces near and far, occasionally away from the home as she made money to support herself and her family, perhaps in addition to her husband. This idea of men working and women staying home is relatively new in human history, brought about as the industrial revolution put an end to cottage industries in which the entire family worked from home. I think whether a woman works outside of the home has absolutely no bearing upon the way God views her or her family. This is something for each family to work out on its own. Yes, God made male and female to be different, and complimentary, but I don't believe that working outside the home has any bearing whatsoever on this.

Personally, I wish we had a world in which mothers could bring infants to work with them. I wish there were more opportunities for mothers and fathers to both work part-time, making it easier for a child to be in the care of a parent. I am at home with my children, but my husband shares in the nurturing and responsibilities of raising our children. While God created me in a special way to nurture our young children with my body and soul, God also created him for the purpose of nurturing them. While God created him to protect us and provide for us, I also share in this responsibility.

Let's separate the idea of working from the idea of faithful Catholic--or Orthodox for that matter.

I just spent the last year teaching religious education. Of 20 students, only four worshiped regularly. The parents thought that the only important thing was that their children be confirmed, though they could not tell me why that was important and Liturgy was not. I've also seen several of our children's friends who had a good Catholic upbringing fall away in the past decade. What that means for their children only the Lord knows.

I think was have a much deeper issue in finding what one could term faithful Catholic--or Orthodox Christian--than the work issue. Does it mean only Sunday practice? And what about the state of catechesis? The materials I was given left a lot to be desired and I can compare that to those I used 20 years ago.

Bob

You're absolutely right. Finding a faithful Catholic is the important thing. The OP seems to equate stay-at-home wife/mother with faithful Catholic, but that

So for me, how did I find a faithful Catholic to marry? I waited a long time for the right man. I didn't get married until I was 31 because I wanted a faithful Catholic. I was once engaged to a man who was not Catholic and we ended up breaking it off primarily because we did not share the same faith. Having a Catholic home was important to me and I did not believe I could have one while married to a non-Catholic. So I waited. And waited. Until I was an old maid. I only dated Catholics who were committed to their faith. I did some online dating and met some very nice gentlemen there, but I ultimately met my husband at a Haloween party given by a couple of Jewish friends. Go figure. So basically, I discerned what was important to me in a husband and I lived my life. I'm quite an introvert, so I didn't join young adult groups at church and go to Catholic social mixers, I was just open to where God would take me. And I didn't date non-Catholics. It narrowed the field considerably, but I also didn't risk getting emotionally involved with someone who was not going to be a suitable husband.

That's very sad about the state of the religious education materials and the parents' attitude. I had thought that the materials at least had see considerable improvement in recent decades.

While I don't exclusively associate "faithful Catholic" with stay-at-home-mom, I do define it as those who fulfill their religious duties and pursue the attainment of virtue through daily prayer and self-vigilance. Yes there were women saints who worked, but you are absolutely correct in defining the fact that most worked in family run enterprises, not factory/office drone wage situations and these women didn't farm their children out to be raised by day care strangers. I have worked from home for 22 years of our 32 yr marriage, had 8 children (the last when I was 40) and homeschooled them, precisely because of the inadequacies of what most parishes pass out as religious education and schools deem as education. For me it's been a question of personal accountability to God as a parent, and who and what influenced my children especially during their critical formative years. Even so we have one fallen-away child but it has given us all a focus for our prayers and sacrifices outside of the ordinary. I will only refer to the mother-in-law from hades and disparaging extended family as trials along the journey. The point is there seems to be less and less pursuit of virtue among the young and we all know that marriage requires the development of a great deal of it. It is the lack of willingness to try to grow in faith and understanding among the young that is most discouraging.

A few thoughts here.

I actually met my wife at a young adults "roving mass" in the San Diego Diocese in the late 80s.

We never planned on her working, but when we ran the numbers during the first pregnancy, we actually would have *lost* money if she tried to stay in the workforce, between transportation, clothing, daycare, and all the deductions having been used on my income anyway.

I joined the Knights of Columbus, which has one of the best insurance programs anywhere. The Kings were founded primarily to take care of the Catholic widows & orphans, and the insurance has already been central.

We looked at what it would cost to pay mortgage, utilities, and Catholic tuition through 18, then college for the (then) two children) and my wife, doubled that, and bought a $1M policy, which cost about $100/month.

In time, that got replaced, but it would have kept them.

Term life, not whole life. And update when you have more children, keeping the lower amount needed with less years in mind.

Fortunately, my last two children (twins) agree with me that graduating without debt is more important than which college.

We haven't replaced our cars very often, but we were aggressive about saving for retirement in our 20s, when it matters most. We still live in the house we bought to move here when we married.

Yes, it can be done, and our kids benefitted, but it's to easy, either.

And, once more, the term life is critical. Buy it young and healthy, and lock in the rate.

hawk