www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship The Kliros Nicene Creed recited as opposed to sung.

Today, I was at a DL at a "SlavtoberFest" festival, and although most of the Divine Liturgy was sung, as it was, I was surprised that the Creed was actually recited as opposed to sung. It almost felt like the Roman Mass when we were doing that. Were there cases that this was done? Somehow I know that some Orthodox Churches do this, too, mainly the Greeks, if I'm not mistaken. Anybody think the Creed being recited is considered odd in most Slavic Orthodox and/or Eastern Catholic Churches?

I don't know if it's odd or not ... but we recite the Creed at my UGCC church.

Everything else is sung, including the Gospel, except for the priest's silent prayers and the epistle.

I hear ya. I'm assuming it has to do with the priest and the parish's ways of doing things. That can throw somebody off if they hail from another parish, when visiting another for a festival like this. Although given the turnout at the Outdoor DL, it seemed like we weren't the only visitors there.

Christ is in our midst!!

Maybe the congregation and their pastor decided that this might be a good way to have everyone learn the Creed.

I was at an Orthodox parish many yaers ago when the parish council was to be sworn in during DL. The priest asked the new members to recite the Creed and had to skip over that part of the investiture ceremony because one and all admitted they didn't know the Creed.

Bob

In most Lutheran parishes the Nicene Creed is spoken from Advent through the Feast of Pentecost and at other major Feasts.

Occasionally some may substitute this congregational hymn of Luther's composition:

We All Believe in One True God"
by Martin Luther, 1525

1. We all believe in one true God,
Who created earth and heaven,
The Father, who to us in love
Hath the right of children given.
He both soul and body feedeth,
All we need He doth provide us;
He through snares and perils leadeth,
Watching that no harm betide us.
He careth for us day and night,
All things are governed by His might.

2. We all believe in Jesus Christ,
His own Son, our Lord, possessing
An equal Godhead, throne, and might,
Source of every grace and blessing.
Born of Mary, virgin mother,
By the power of the Spirit,
Made true man, our elder Brother,
That the lost might life inherit;
Was crucified for sinful men
And raised by God to life again.

3. We all confess the Holy Ghost,
Who sweet grace and comfort giveth
And with the Father and the Son
In eternal glory liveth;
Who the Church, His own creation,
Keeps in unity of spirit.
Here forgiveness and salvation
Daily come through Jesus' merit.
All flesh shall rise, and we shall be
In bliss with God eternally. Amen.

Well, I did attend St. Josaphat Vigil DL today, and it seemed like a lot of the Liturgy was recited except for a few parts of which were sung. So in a way, it does seem like there's a lot more of the Divine Liturgy in the UGCC that is recited than in the Ruthenian Church, where most, if not all the Liturgy is sung except for the stuff that shouldn't, or is recited optionally.

I do confess that if you asked me to recite the Creed, I would be tongue tied. Indeed, to write it down, I actually do have to sing it in my head.

Agreed. Even though there are different tones sung to the Creed now (meaning it's not fixed to that one tone anymore like it used to be), I do agree that it does sound better sung.

Ever Greek orthodox church I have ever been to recited the Creed, sometimes in Greek, sometimes in English. A local Serbian church recites the creed in Serbian.

Not intending to start a new thread, but these churches also recited the Our Father also.

Sadly, this trend has infected many of our Carpatho-Russian parishes in ACROD as well. Notwithstanding that there are at least ten or more renditions of Our Father in our plain chant tradition and three versions to chant the Viruju, some priests must think this is either 'cool' or more 'Orthodox' (Oh how I HATE that concept...) The reader at the Johnstown cathedral even reads the Epistle, coming to a musical chant only at the last sentence.

The recitation of the Creed and the Lord's Prayer by the entire congregation in Greek Orthodox Churches is something rather recent, probably originating in the USA.

In Greek monasteries, those two items are read (or, often, very simply intoned) by the abbot or the senior non-celebrating monk. Sometimes, these items will be offered to a high-ranking visitor. (Note that when the Pope visited the Phanar, he was given the privilege of reading the Lord's Prayer. When I attended Liturgy at the Phanar in 2007, the Ecumenical Patriarch presided over the Liturgy from his throne, and read both the Creed and Lord's Prayer. These items were not spoken together by the congregation.

Common recitation of the Creed and Lord's Prayer is standard in GOA practice today, and is one of the few ways in which the average parishioner can participate in the Liturgy.

I don't think this is "more Orthodox" or "less Orthodox"--just "differently Orthodox." Having these things recited in common was probably intended to boost congregational participation. (The same can be said for the Russian practice of simply intoning the Creed and Lord's Prayer, and having the deacon "direct" the congregation in singing.) However, for those liturgical traditions that already have active congregational singing, common recitation isn't necessary.

Fr. David

A Ukrainian orthodox church I've been to recites the creed and the Our Father but everything else is sung except the epistle which an altar server normally reads and of course the prayer before communion.

We do too at our Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish.

It is true that if you ask an Eastern Catholic or Orthodox to recite the Creed, very few could. So for that reason I can understand priests who want the the foundation of our faith recited.

A compromise (good definition intended) may be to sing it on Sundays and recite it on Holy Days and weekday liturgies, which seems to be the pattern that we have fallen into.

I would hope that recitation of the Lord's prayer is not necessary.....the faithful should be able to recite it easily.

The explanation given by Fr. Hitchens of the seminary is that since so very few parishioners sing, either because they don't know the music or the choir does all the singing, it was thought best that at least they should all recite the Creed in common. I am happy to report that beginning this weekend the Creed will be sung at the Front Royal mission!