www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Prayer Rugs?

Has John Paul II ever commented on the Old Belivers practice? is it consedered wrong to practice these Devotions? because i know my Byzantine Priest said he still uses some of the Old Beliver tradtions.

Dear ByzJohn,

Rome fully recognizes two Russian Rites: The Nikonian and the Old Believer.

There were (and are) Old Believer Eastern Catholics (they call themselves "Catholic Orthodox").

The Russian Church lifted the excommunication against them in 1977, but way back at the end of the 18th century, the Russian Church allowed for "Old Believer United" Christians or those who had rejoined the Russian Church and were allowed to practice their Old Believer Rites.

There is nothing that is "UnOrthodox" about their Rites" - as I said, Rome fully recognizes the Old Rite and Met. Andrew Sheptytsky received a group of Old Believers into communion with Rome and himself was an ardent student of Old Believer traditions.

As you can gather, there is an Old Believer "fifth column" on this forum with Diak at the head .

Edward Wong is another Old Believer practitioner.

And I have to raise my two fingers as well. I helped with a video on Old Believers and my friend in Kyiv keeps asking me of I'm Old Believer and I tell him, "Not that old, but I'm getting there . . ."

Apart from the two-fingered Sign of the Cross, the Old Believer traditions, in every which way, represent the ancient traditions of our forefathers, the prostrations, the wearing of the embroidered rubashka and belt, the meticulous observance of prayer and fasting etc.

Thus, the Old Believers are really what our ancestors were all about.

I especially love their traditions surrounding the wearing of the neck Cross.

One prays the prayer "Let God arise" morning and night when taking it off and putting it on.

And these neck Crosses tend to be large and some wear them openly.

If asked what "that" is, we are to say, with St Paul, "I bear on my body the Marks of the Lord Jesus and bear my Cross after Him."

The piety really pierces one's heart!

Alex

<<"Gatekeeper" Icon of the Theotokos >>

Please someone [ Alex ] explain this - is it s specific Icon ?

Angela

Dear Angela,

Here is a really good site on this icon:

http://www.yalchicago.org/Portaitissa_Miracle?Icon.html

It is from the Iveron (Georgian) Monastery on Mt. Athos.

Like the Icon of Czestochowa, Queen of Poland, it has two sword marks on the cheek of the Mother of God.

A marauder struck the icon with his sword and blood flowed from the cuts.

He converted to Christianity (Orthodox, of course!) and did penance on Mt. Athos (sorry, "exercises of spiritual healing").

When asked his name, he told people to call him a barbarian, since only such would commit a sacrilege like that.

He was locally canonized on Athos and to this day is known as "St Barbarian."

Alex

Aaaargh I know not if it is AOL but I got the dreaded
Not Found
The requested URL /Portaitissa_Miracle was not found on this server.
And I used both my Browsers and then AOL had the temerity to collapse.

Ah well I tried - thanks for the URL ALex.I've saved it and I'll try again when we go to ADSL

Dear Angela,

Sorry about that, Chief!

I'll find another one.

But suffice it to say that the icon was kept at the Portal of Athos from whence its name "Keeper of the Gate."

It is popular to keep it by the door of the home and to pray there as one leaves or returns.

Alex

Gottttit !!
A certain young Indian passed the URL to me

http://www.yalchicago.org/Portaitissa_Miracle_Icon.html

[there was a subtle difference between yours and Mor's version Alex :p ]

And it worked! What a beautiful Icon and oh what a story.
Thanks all

[ 09-10-2002: Message edited by: Our Lady's slave of love ]

ALEX the Web page link you gave me for the Prayer rug store dident work either can u check it again? im sorry

CIX!

Dear all,

Here I stand, ready to be counted as a lover of Old Rite traditions!

*holds up hand in the two-fingered position*

Mind you, the neck cross I wear is ethiopian...

Just my two denarii!

in Domino,

Edward

Dear ByzJohn,

Sorry! Either I've made a mistake or the Old Believers aren't as computer savvy . . .

E-mail Taras Burnos and he is the order-taker there!

Tell him that "Alex sent you."

No, I don't get a discount for having people say that . . .

Alex

Father Eustachy Susalev of blessed memory was a Russian Catholic priest who used the Old Believer (pre-Nikonian) ritual with the blessing and encouragement of Metropolitan Andrey Sheptysky who accepted Fr. Eustachy under his omophorion. I would love to see his cause advanced for beatification someday. Us closet Old Believers would love to have another patron...There were several other Old Believer priests who came under the Ukrainian Catholic hierarchy.

That Erie prayerbook is a gem. It has been my and my family's treasured and primary prayer book for many years now. And it has many useful and practical guidelines for following many of the practices (and more) that we have discussed in this thread.

When I'm ordained to the diaconate here in a few months I'd love to serve for a liturgy with the pre-Nikonian Old Believer rubrics, but finding a priest with the same sentiment is another thing...Archpriest Avvakum, pray for me a sinner.

Dear Diak,

Yes, the ROCOR Old Believers haven't canonized Avvakum et al. yet, but the Bilaya Krinitsa group in Ukraine and Russia has - they list many Old Believer Saints in their beautiful colour calendar.

Among the New Martyrs of Russia are priests who were "bi-ritual."

They served the Liturgy in both the Nikonian and in the Old Rites.

St Aracadius of Poltava, a Russian priest, was such a one and had two parishes which he served.

He tried to organize ecumenical gatherings to finally end the Old Believer schism, but the problem he kept running into was that when a Nikonian Bishop was invited to an Old Believer priestly Church to speak, the Old Believers would sprinkle holy water after him as he left to cleanse any spiritual pollution that MIGHT be around with the presence of someone who didn't Cross themselves in the proper way . . .

Alex

Slava Isusu Christu!

Are there any Eastern Catholic Old Believer websites? What a fascinating subject. I have seen the ROCOR Old Believer site; it is very nice with Real Audio Sermons

http://www.churchofthenativity.net

In Christ,


Robert

Slava Isusu Hristu!

I lived in Iasi, Romania for about ten months. In my neighbourhood, there was a Romanian Orthodox Church; an Old Calendar Church; and, beside a park, an "Old Believer" Church - very old. I believe some persecuted Old Believers fled to Moldavia (Iasi, at that time, being a principal city of that principality). I used to see the congregants approach the church with their pillows. I never managed to figure out the organization of the Old Believer parishes in Romania and the region. Just my two cents!

God bless,
Christopher
Armenian Catholic

Robert, unfortunately the small flocks of Father Eustachy Susalev and companions were dispersed during the Soviet persecution. The Russian Catholic priests in Moscow is looking for some but has yet not been able to find any. My guess is that some of the descendants of these faithful are probably in Kazakhstan or Siberia now.

I am hoping to begin a small book or pamphlet chronicling the history of the Eastern Catholic Old Believers this summer.

I think it's time to start an OB mission again...quit dreaming, boy. :rolleyes: