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hey! i was recently talking to my Priest at the Byzantine Church and he told me that "old Belivers" some still use Rugs when they do there prayers so they can do there prostrations? can someone explane to me what a Prayer rug is and where one could buy one? and also what exactly and Old Beliver is? lol also when and how do you do prostarations? any help would be great!

God bless!

Dear ByzJohn,

Old Believers are Orthodox Christians in Russia who refused to accept the liturgical reforms of Patriarch Nicon in the 17th century.

Prof. Paul Meyendorff's doctoral dissertation on them is available from St Vlad's Seminary Press.

At that time, the Russian Church had developed some traditions that were different from those of the rest of Orthodoxy.

For example, the Russian Church at the "Stoglav" Council (100 Heads) decreed that the Sign of the Cross was to be made with two fingers, extending the index and middle fingers (middle slightly bent) and grouping together the thumb and last two fingers - saying the Jesus Prayer rather than the Trinitarian invocation.

This council actually excommunicated anyone who did NOT make the Sign of the Cross that way!

The Russians then took Communion three times from the Chalice, and had a number of other pious practices.

By the time of Patriarch Nicon, reforms were introduced to annul the two-fingered Sign of the Cross and bring the Russian liturgical practice in line with the Greek usages. The Tsar of Russia saw himself as the new Emperor of the Orthodox East and so there was some politics involved - when isn't there?

Many Russians, including aristocracy, refused to give up their Sign of the Cross and other traditions. Many were burned at the stake. The Old Believer priest, St Avvakum was burned. The rest were excommunicated and these became grouped into "priestless" and "priestly" sects.

In 1977, the Russian Church lifted the anathemas of those times. Today, there is a "priestly" Church of BelayaKrinitsa that has canonized their martyrs and have a Metropolitan in Moscow - there are other church formations of the Old Believers. The priestless variety persist as well, and we have them in Canada.

The Old Believers make many prostrations and they believe that one must keep clean the right hand with which we trace the Sign of the Cross on ourselves.

They therefore bring a small embroidered pillow called a "Poddruchnik" to Church (you can see them in their churches lying against the iconostasis).

They place this in front of them, and place their leather prayer ladder or "Lestovka" on their elbow or else hold it.

To make a prostration, you first Cross yourself and as Old Believers do, bring your fingers to your forehead and say "Lord." Then, down to your stomach and say, "Jesus Christ" (to commemeorate His Incarnation in the Womb of His Mother) and then to the right shoulder and say, "Son of God" as He sits at the right Hand of the Father. And then to the left shoulder and say, "have mercy on me a sinner" since we ask God to save us from the fate of those on His Left and bring us to the Elect on His Right.

Then, release your hand and say, "Amen."

And then with your knees together, move forward and downward putting your hands on the pillow or rug and touching your forehead to your hands. And then stand back up.

A minor prostration is one that is done with the head to the waist level only.

Again, this could be a mat or a pillow of any kind.

Someone here might remember the Belaya Krinitsa website in Ukraine that sells Poddruchnyky and other Old Believer items.

The Old Believers are famous for their bronze Crosses and Icons.

In this, they imitate Christ's saying in John, chapter three I believe, where our Lord compares His Crucifixion to the lifting up of the bronze serpent by Moses in the desert.

There was a tradition in Ukraine and Russia where people actually wore little bronze serpents on their necks along with their neck crosses to recall this biblical quote as well!

You might wish to visit the site of the Old Rite Church of the Nativity. I know there is someone there who makes Lestovkas and they might have someone who makes Poddruchnyky as well (www.churchofthenativity.net? [churchofthenativity.net]).

Their site also lists when the prostrations are to be made in Church.

The monastic rule of Russia generally states that ten prayer ropes (each prayer rope equals 100 Prayers) are to be done in community each day.

They make 30 prostrations with the Jesus Prayer then stand in silence doing the other 70 and do this ten times.

Alex

[ 09-09-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

im confused what is a lestvosky? a prayer ladder? whats it look like? also are these prayer pillows? or prayer rugs like moslims use? also how do they do it do they go to there knees then place there hands on the pillow and then there head on there hands? im currious how they get on the floor? sounds like a beatefull practice! although i am having trouble finding makers of these items =(

The Lestovka ("Ladder" in Slavonic) is an Old Believer prayer rope or chotki. It has four Lapostki ("leaves") usually made out of leather symbolizing the four Evangelists.

Between the four lapostki are seven pieces that are moveable to symbolize the seven sacramental mysteries of the church. Where the Lestovka is joined together there are three large babochki at each end, and three on the Lestovka itself for a total of nine large "steps" (babochki) which stand for the nine ranks of angels. There is an empty space on the Lestovka which signifies the earth.

Then there are twelve beads signifying the 12 ranks of angels. Then there are 39 beads for the 39 weeks in which the Theotokos carried Christ in her womb.

These are followed by 33 beads which symbolize the life of Christ. Finally comes 17 beads which symbolize the 17 prophets who proclaimed the coming of Christ. The small beads are used for recitation of the Jesus prayer. The 17 are also used to count the Prayer of St. Ephraim during the Great Fast.

The sets of three are for the Trisagion, the prayer of the publican, and other tripartite prayers.

The pillow is placed on the floor before starting prayers and when the prostrations are made it is thus in place. There are a few of us on this forum who are hard-core Old Believer fans.

The Archpriest Avvakum was one of the primary clerical leaders of the Old Believers and is considered a saint by most of them. He resisted even Patriarch Nikon publicly with his protests of the Nikonian reforms. The Old Believers have endured persecution under both tsars and the Soviet regimes, taking refuge in such exotic places as Harbin, China; Brazil, Argentina, the US and Canada.

There are two main brances of Old Believers, those with priests (popovsty) and those without (bezpopovsty). Some of the bezpopovsty like the Old Beiliever parish in Erie, Pennsylvania and one group on the Kenai Peninsula in Alaska later became popovsty having some of their elders ordained priests, deacons and subdeacons and also having some tonsured as readers by an Old Believer bishop.

The Erie Old Believer parish is also in communion with the ROCOR (Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia) which issued an ukase (directive) affirming the validity of the pre-Nikonian Old Believer liturgical forms and lamenting their persecution.

[ 09-09-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

ok but im still confussed about prostrations? do you start on your knees? and then go to the floor putting your hands on the pillow and then your head on your hands? or do you start standing then go to your knees then bow to the floor then back to your knees then back on your feet? im sorry but i need a detailed explantion i really want to start this practice!

God bless!

I can see it now, "The Old Believer Workout"...

Standing, then to your knees, then lay your hands on the podrushnik and your head on your hands. But...I knew one Old Believer family who left their hands at their sides and touched their heads to the podrushnik directly.

In terms of buying one, that's probably tough since generally the Old Believer women are adept at handiwork and make them for their own families, as they do the poyas and rubashka (embroidered belts and shirts).

I bought a small rug in the Middle East. I've infact used it for one purpose only - as a prayer rug. I copied this from the Muslims. For me the rug would have strong connections to my prayers since I only used it for prayers. Unfortunately I no longer have it though.

Islam teaching a professed Christian a thing or two.


Justin

HAHA ok now i am going to sound very picky lol but,,, when you go down on your knees do you do one knee then the other or do you go down on both knees at once? "impressive if you can do this i tried it Lol" i know its a rediculous Question but i had to ask! i like details! =o) also do you put your hands palm down on the pillow or palm up? "yes this little detail does matter to me because i think i understand this good now" =) sounds like a very nice practice! im all into connecting the WHOLE person when you Worship! BODY . Mind and Spirt! its why i feel Icons, Incense , Prayer Ropes, Rosarys, Oil, Etc, are so important to Worship! we are a Body Soul Composit Creature and God Gave us these tools to help Ground us! we are a people of the Senses and i feel its a Gift from God! I think having Certain Items you JUST use for Prayer help Ground you! if you have a Prayer Rug then you know when you lay it down you are about to do something HOLY! just like when the Jews wrap there Prayer Shawl around them they know they are about to do a Holy Act! i feel the one of the Biggest Mistakes the Protestants made was chucking out all of the Sacrementals. yes you can get buy without them..but its MUCH harder! and most can not.

God bless

Right knee first, then left, then your head down, three movements. Palms down facing the podrushnik.

My wife does all sorts of Ukrainian embroidery and made my podrushnik. If you know someone that does cross-stitch you might be able to get them to make you one. The podruschnik should be blessed before use by a priest.

[ 09-10-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

Dear ByzJohn,

Yes, you can go right knee first, but it may cause problems if you are like me and out of shape .

The Old Believers teach that it is best to go down bending both knees at the same time and then getting up that way as well. I can vouch for the wisdom of this and you won't experience any "clicking" in the knee afterwards . . .

I have some Old Believer sites for you where you can order their prayer rope Lestovka and poddruchnik.

This is from my friend, Taras Burnos, a journalist and Old Believer who lives in Kyiv - tell him Alex sent you . . .

mailto:tarasburnos@mail.ru

You can also view this site:

http://www.old-shop.chat.ru

and

http://www.staroobryad.narod.ru

His mother makes the pillows and they sell the prayer ropes, icons and a beautiful calendar - if you read Church Slavonic - with all their glorified Old Believer Saints and Martyrs included.

They are preparing to glorify as a Saint and Martyr their Bishop Raphael.

Also, on the above latter site, there is information about another candidate for sainthood provided to the Old Believers by a Greek Catholic!

Do try to get their prayerbook from the Church of the Nativity.

Alex

As OrthodoxCatholic responded, Old Believers refused to accept Patriarch Nikon's reforms. They were persecuted pretty badly over the centuries.

I did not know about their use of prayer rugs. Nor had I ever heard the "Old Believer" workout ;-) so well described, as in the posts above. Fascinating!

Cheerio,
Annie


[ 09-10-2002: Message edited by: Annie_SFO ]

Dear Anne,

The Old Believers are "addicted" to prostrations and never fail to make a full prostration at the end of the prayer "It is truly meet."

This has gotten them into some trouble with others who say that one should not do full prostrations on Sundays and Feast Days.

They insist on the full prostration for this prayer, especially during their "Entrance and Departure Bows."

If you don't mind, I want to relate this Rite here:

O God be merciful to me a sinner (bow to the waist)

For Thou hast created me, Lord, have mercy on me (waist bow)

For I have sinner without measure, Lord have mercy and forgive me a sinner (waist bow).

Then the prayer "It is truly meet . . ." with a full prostration at the end.

Then "Glory be to the Father. . ." (waist bow)

"and now and always . . " (waist bow)

Lord have mercy (2 times) Lord, bless (waist bow)

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, through the prayers of Thy Most Pure Mother, the Might of the Precious and Life-Giving Cross, the prayers of my Guardian Angel (our Name-Saint, Saints of the Day, Patron of our home and Church) and of all Thy Saints, have mercy and save me, for Thou art Good and a Lover of mankind. Amen" (full prostration).

These prayers and bows are said when we leave or enter our homes and parish churches.

When we enter another's home, we don't even say "hello" but go to the icons to perform this Rite and then we greet the hosts.

And we greet the hosts in this way, after kissing them three times on the cheeks,: With the Feast of (Saint's Day or Feast Day), I greet you.

After taking refreshment in someone's home, we thank them and say, "May Christ save you."

Alex

When my go to my Russian Catholic friend's house, I do venerate the "Gatekeeper" Icon of the Theotokos before I greet him (with the three kisses in Slavic tradition) and if there is a Feast, we do greet with Spraznikom.
It is SUCH a beautiful tradition and very important in this society to keep these traditions.
The Old Believers can teach us much about preserving and living our Faith in the midst of a secualr society. They are a witness!