www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology On Erroneous Remarks Made By "Catholic" Newsletter On Eastern Married Clergy

Many Roman Catholics don't realize the difference between ordaining married men and allowing priests to marry; most don't realize that if a Roman deacon's wife dies he cannot remarry. As groups of conservative Anglicans leave that communion and their clergy seek to become married RC priests under the special provision I believe this will create a problem for the RC Church; as more RC's are exposed to married priests (both from the Eastern Rite and special provision priests form the Lutheran and Anglican churches) the celibacy requiremment will be harder to explain.

Dear Frank,

Thank you - but I'm nothing special! Just ask my wife . . .

The beauty and richness of the Roman Catholic tradition is something that should truly be shared and loved by all Christians!

We Eastern Catholics and Orthodox have also developed a knee-jerk reaction against Latinization and anything "Latin" that prevents us from seeing and appreciating that beauty.

Alex

Unfortunately, our Byzantine Catholic bishops act as though it was true.

None dare call it leadership.

Got b***s?

Can't help but comment after reading some of the posts in the first part of this thread. I do agree that women are great. I know because I am a woman who just happens to think men are great too!

A Byzantine Catholic monk had an outstanding piece on different traditions--East and West--regarding marriage and celibacy in the December 2002 issue of *First Things*. Definitely worth a look.

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0212/opinion/davies.html

Adam

Dear Adam,

There is one question that newly-ordained married priests keep asking me that I thought you would have the answer to . . .

The priest's "Molitvoslov" states that a married priest cannot sleep EVEN IN THE SAME ROOM with his Presbytera the night before he is to serve the Divine Liturgy.

Now what about those who have daily Divine Liturgies?

Why does one then even need a Presbytera, except, of course, to fix dinner and bake prosphoras?

Alex

Alex,

Can that be interpreted as permitting him to sleep with other women in other rooms? I've heard once before that celibacy was to be interpreted as not having relations with the OTHER sex. Just wondering if loopholes have been found in the Molitvoslov too?

What if the priest's wife works hard all week long and isn't rested until the weekend for play time (working hard can be for work-at-home mothers/wives and work-at-work mothers/wives)? Is this a case for perpetual continence? Such rules assume that pani is always waiting at home for pan to claim his marital privelege before the weekend comes around. Can we spell O-B-S-O-L-E-S-C-E-N-C-E?

Get real (not you, of course).

Some rules can only have been invented by men, probably celibate men who were upset that they don't get any so they have to place similar burdens on others.

Let married folks enjoy each other's company the way the want. And let rulemakers, who have entirely too much time on their hands, go back to enforcing mandatory celibacy.

Joe

Dear Cantor Joseph,

Well, I agree! (Not about the sleeping with other women in other rooms - although it is interesting . . .)

One newly-minted married priest who was ordained by my late great uncle in the "old country" was having a terrible time with that rule . . . And his presbytera was having an even worse time . . .

She told him to "call Alex and listen to what he tells you" ( ).

So he did . . .

I told him basically what you just said.

And I added that he could approach the entire matter with an air of seriousness and in a meditative state . . .

Both seemed to like that.

I think people like you and I are highly under-utilized in our Church, don't you think?

I"m sure the Administrator here would agree!

God bless!

Alex

Dear Joe:

The PROBABILITY you just assigned to celibate priests/monks as making up the "rules of cohabitation" for married clergy, as an afterthought tit-for-tat, takes the form of an icing on the cake as far as the general wrongness of celibacy is concerned, and, specifically, as a discipline in the Latin Church!

Amado

Or perhaps men who had a little too much in their past and feel guilty about it?

I'm thinking of the use of Blessed Augustine by pro-mandatory celibacy folks.

Dear Mikey,

Yes indeed!

Augustine was an expert, er, on celibacy . . .

"Late have I come to love you, O Lord!"

Alex

Dear Amado,

Come again?

(no pun intended . . .)

Alex

For every silly rule the clergy makes up for married folks, married folks should be able to make up one for them.

Celibacy is not a vice; mandating celibacy for non-monastics is. Many monastics embraced it along with poverty and obedience and have become shining lights for us all.

Let me make it clear. I am not, in any way, against celibacy. Nor do I think that those who have embraced it because of church law are incapable of living it. The Holy Spirit can really help those who fast and pray ...

But rules for MARRIED clergy when not to engage in the marital privelege? If the rule was derived from the Christian praxis of praying and fasting originally meant for all, then we (married folks) should all be mandated to abstain from the marital privelege. But mandating such a rule today would be ecclesial suicide. So, the rule gets pushed off for clergy.

If our bishops want their clergy to be living icons, then the option for marriage should be given them. We need good, loving, married couples to set us an example to live by. I feel more sorry that our clergy cannot enjoy the companionship and comfort of a loving Christian woman (recall St. Paul's own question on the subject) than impressed by their ability to live under the yoke of mandatory celibacy simply because our bishops worry about offending pencil-pushing Latin bishops behind desks than offending their own vocations who eventually leave for other churches.

Maybe it is a control thing so bishops can make easier decisions to send clergy here and there without concern about a family in their shadow all the time. I've already witnessed how family is not always a priority first when ministry is involved. So what if pani has a miscarriage?

Sometimes, our clerics need to be married so they can have at least someone to knock some sense into them now and then.

Joe

Dear Cantor Joseph,

First of all, I think it would help if our EC Churches controlled the selection of their bishops and not Rome . . .

A married priest recently told me that when he asked his bishop not to transfer him out of his current parish because this would cause great upheaval in the lives of his two sons at school - the bishop simply replied, "Well, then you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place!"

Nice guy . . .

And I don't know about you, but fasting has the opposite effect on me!

I would've made a great monastic, wouldn't I?

Although I understand that the old Celtic monks could be married and the surname "MacNab" means "Son of the Abbot."

Hmmm . . .

Alex

And, hopefully, after a glass of wine and a fine candlelight dinner.

I am happy offering my service elsewhere. I contract my work two or three days a week for myself at a satisfactory rate. I have four or five days a week to pursue other things.

Joe