www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Not the Two Sides of the Same Coin

Let's return to the original topic, to the subject of the first post of this thread.


By 'our' I meant my, my own and personal (perspective). I repeat, that I'm not an adherent of any group of 'old-school' Catholics, though I have sympathy for the non-fanatical among them.

And for clarification: When I, as a Latin-rite Catholic, speak of 'theological modernism' -- or 'theological liberalism', 'theological libertarianism', 'theological freethinking' --, I do not mean the intellectual interest that some Roman (Byzantine- or Latin-rite) Catholics have for Greek Orthodox teachings ("Let's see what they have to say"); but I mean the more-than-intellectual interest and the unwise openness that some Catholics, even clergymen, have for Non-Christian (Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, whatever) teachings (e.g., the belief in reincarnation) and practices (e.g., yoga, sati). Theological modernism is... basically the same as the Baha'i faith, or Hinduism.


Thus I still say, that the error of Catholic ritual traditionalists is less grave (if there's any error at all) than the error of theological modernists. It's an unfortunate reality, that some of the 'old-school' Catholics are fanatical -- that's a problem of hypocrisy and perhaps also ignorance --, but they still follow or are trying to follow ortho-dox Catholic Christian beliefs. And I understand their frustration with the theological modernists.



It has took me some time to understand what you meant by that, Irish Ruthenian. That wasn't my questioning, because I'm not K.E. -- any forum administrator can confirm that, by comparing our IP addresses.

After having read through your recent conversation with K.E. ("Acceptance of Eastern Orthodox Saints", Sept. 2019), I now understand your attitude of precaution/reluctance/suspicion toward me, after me having mentioned about traditional(ist) Catholics.


Aha; so why didn't you say so (again, to me too)? (Though Irish Ruthenian might disagree with you on the syncretism part.) You know, I didn't even expect for people to not be allowed to join this forum merely for not being Catholics, or to be forbidden to have any sort of discussion on any a non-Catholic topic. Yet I disagree with the "we have begun the road to communion by talking to each other" part. That's an overestimation of yourselves (or of yourself, because not all the forum folks here might think in the same way). Reminder, here's how things stand in both the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox Church: the high-ranking clergymen are the descendants of the Apostles, and only they have the authority to decide over these things; and they already have begun and have been talking to each other for decades. It's not as if the Pope from Rome and the Patriarch from Constantinople wouldn't talk to each other, and that they and the bishops have lost their authority, and "it's up to the laity" and a few priests and monks (a few Catholics and a few Orthodox, mostly laypeople, who are having conversations on an on-line forum) to undo the Schism.

Now back on topic: ritual traditionalists and theological modernists: not 'the two sides of the same coin'.

The sacred Council is an ecumenical council and involves the whole Church.

Answering the topic: Catholic traditionalism is also present in the Ukrainian Church, see SSJK (Priestly Society of Saint Josaphat Kuntsevych). In particular, I see no reason to adhere to traditionalism (either in the latin or byzantine rite).

Vigilante:

Christ is in our midst!!

There are many more Churches of Apostolic origin that are not part of the Greek Orthodox Church. What of them?

Bob

I disagree with this.

It is true that bishops are the ones with the authority to decide these things.

It is also true that laymen taking interest in them and forming friendships do much to encourage their bishops to push to resolve any remaining issues.

Over the last 20+ years I have had the privilege of attending the "Orientale Lumen Conferences", organized by a layman in the Byzantine Catholic Church named Jack Figel (taking place mostly in the United States but also in places like Istanbul (Constantinople)). Each conference has about a 10 or 12 speakers selected equally from the Eastern Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. Participating bishops have commented publicly on their usefulness, mostly because the conferences have provided them an opportunity to spend time together and form friendships. Plus, the bishops are reminded that laymen care about these things.

There are others as well.

I will agree that online forums like this one are less able to contribute than events where people actually come together. But their contribution is not nothing.