www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Eucharist and disease

I have read that our Orthodox brethren believe that it is impossible for the Eucharist, being the source of life, to communicate disease. Roman Catholics teach that the Eucharist "can" transmit disease. What do Eastern Catholic Churches teach on this? I should add with Orthodoxy, I can't say with certainty that this is what they teach or if it was just a common pious opinion held by many on the various forums/platforms I was speaking with them on.

Catholic teaching has always maintained that while the reality (substance) of the Eucharistic bread and wine is the resurrected and glorified body and blood of Christ the accidents remain, and are subject to corruption. Bread gets stale, gets moldy; wine can turn to vinegar etc. So the accidents of bread and wine, through manual transmission and saliva, can bring about infection if viruses abound, as is the present case with Covid 19. This need not shake our faith, but caution us to be careful and vigilant stewards Ut vigilemus cum Christo....

Wouldn't it be impossible for this to happen while Christ is present in the Eucharist? After He leaves the bread and wine, they return to being bread and wine, albeit consecrated? This has been what I was taught at RCIA. That after communion the Lord is no longer present in the host. An example would be if you have particles of the Host stuck to the back of your teeth or something, after Communion those particles cease to be the Lord's Real Presence. Is this also true in the East or is this idea a novelty in the West?

Christ is in our midst!!

Colin:

I hardly know where to start. Christ NEVER leaves the consecrated bread and wine. They ARE and REMAIN His Most Holy Body and Precious Blood. They NEVER return to bread and wine. I hope with all my heart that this is NOT what you were taught in RCIA because this is a heresy that some Protestant Reformers taught. If this were so, it would make no sense to reserve the Eucharist in the tabernacle and it would make no sense whatsoever to have Eucharistic Adoration in the monstrance outside the Liturgy.

All visible particles are the same as a whole Host. That is why the vessels are so carefully cleansed and the cleaning water is consumed. That is why some Orthodox literature asks a communicant not to spit after receiving because one's mouth is "empurpled with the Blood of Christ."

Bob

This is indeed what I was taught at RCIA, unfortunately. That thought had occurred in my mind (if Christ leaves at Mass how is it some hosts retain His Real Presence for Adoration). Now that I'm actively thinking about it, I'm surprised the thought never occurred to me to see why these two contradictory ideas coexist. I get now that they don't, and I was simply not properly formed/taught the faith in that (and likely many other) regard(s). This is likely the status quo for the diocesan church these days, hence what first drove me into the TLM crowd. I am so grateful for Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. While not free from problems, I can at least rest in the East knowing I do not have to worry about faulty teaching. To be fair, I doubt Rome as a whole teaches this about the Eucharist if one were to research. But the fact that this is commonly taught in diocesan churches shows that the problems run very deep indeed. Lord hasten to help us!

Christ is in our midst!

I once served a funeral at a Protestant parish that believed this idea. I started to talk to the people who had set up for their Sunday Communion service and asked what they did if there were extra consecrated bread and wine left over. I was told that after their Communion Service, the altar breads were put back in the box they came in and the wine went back in the bottle until the next time. But that is their Eucharistic theology.

Bob

Thank God they don't have the Eucharist then!!!! I think this is why the Anglicans/Lutherans eventually lost their Sacraments and Eucharist. They changed their religion so far from Catholicism/Orthodoxy that eventually it could no longer be reconciled and they lost their Holy Orders and connection to the Apostolic Churches as a result.

Christ is in our midst!!

Colin:

I did not say that the parish was Anglican or Lutheran. Some of the parishes in these Churches reserve the sacrament as Catholics do. Please don't jump to conclusions about any Protestant churches over my one experience.

What any Protestant congregation has or does not have--that is above my pay grade; it's for the Lord to make Himself present to these folks as he wills. I believe the Christian East calls it
"economia": the Holy Spirit blows where He wills and makes up whatever is lacking. This is not to be understood as syncretism, but is simply based on the idea that we need to keep the Faith we have received and stop trying to take a splinter out of another's eye when our great beam is judgmentalism.

Bob

Christ is in our midst!!

Colin:

Going back to what happens in receiving Our Lord--

By analogy, if I take in food, does it leave me once it is digested and is no longer unrecognizable? No, it is absorbed into every fiber of my being. So, too, I believe, the Lord absorbs Himself into every fiber of my being because He wants to be that intimately linked to me in relationship--the relationship we call "communion," i.e., coming into union (to translate the Latin freely); a progressive growing in relationship.

Since we are called by our Baptism to be His Presence wherever we go--to be His living icons to others--He lives with us deep inside so that, by the Holy Spirit's prompting, we can fulfill that mission day to day. To continue to be His Presence, just as to continue to live, we need nourishment and he provides that by continually nourishing us with Himself.

So does he abandon us after we receive Him? I think not.

Bob

Not to get off topic but just a quick aside, do the Eastern Churches believe what Rome taught about non Catholics "holy orders", namely that they are devoid of grace and invalid?

Christ is in our midst!!

Colin:

I read an anecdote about a Russian bishop who answered a question by one of his parishioners about what happens to Catholics and Protestants. He was quoted as saying that we let the Lord be concerned and judge others not of our Church. We look to ourselves and see how faithfully we have lived up to what our Church teaches.

Good advice for then and for now.

What will you think at the Last Judgment when you see non-Christians and people not of your Church entering the Kingdom and you're left in the dark as the Gate of heaven closes? This is a statement I was given to ponder each evening during my Examination of Conscience. Where have I been today and throughout my life? Do I have a lot of baggage to answer for?

Bob

I certainly agree with and see the wisdom of that Bob, thank you. It's been hard for me to "let go" of the western mindset. Especially having so fiercely defended the whole notion of there being no salvation outside the Church (except in rare, individual cases known only to God). While even then, I tried not to let myself worry about others salvation when my own was far from being certain. But I still experience difficulty in letting go of the things I had sort of trained/conditioned myself to hold on to/defend from scrutiny. This slow journey into Eastern Christianity has taught me so much about myself that I don't think I ever would have learned if I stayed where I was at. I am always appreciative and grateful for everyone's patience and understanding in helping me with this journey. God's Blessings on you all!

Christ is in our midst!!

Colin:

It is still true that outside the Church there is no salvation (for us), but that does not bind God. The Lord has told us that there are other sheep that "are not of this flock" that He will bring together. But this is still wrapped in mystery and is part of His Plan. What He intends to do or does is not for us to question--"Who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been His counselor?"

Maybe it's age, but I find myself less inclined to look at the splinter in my brother's eye when I know about the beam blinding mine. At the end of the day each of us has been placed where the Lord intends us to be; each of us has the cross and challenges He wants us to have; and each of us is to do our own struggle and try to lift up those around us who are also struggling. We're all struggling to "get it right."

Beyond that, there are so many unchurched people who are that way because of the nit-picking of religious people. That is not to say that correct doctrine is not necessary, indeed vital, but that too many people make their lives about the argument and are far from the "lived out." It is said that each of us may be the only Bible some people will ever read--so it's in the "living out" that is the proof of what we truly believe. Are you more gentle; more caring; more willing to admit being wrong; more willing to forgive quickly when you are the one wronged; are you willing to go the extra mile to make amends; are you struggling to be more like the Master? Can someone say to you that they admire you because of the way you live your life? To me, this latter is the most humbling; the most to strive for--and it is usually not that one actively strives for it since it is God's gifts and grace that you live in your life.

Bob

That is one of the finest and most succinct preparation for the Sacrament of Confession that I ever read.

This was a powerful statement, "It is said that each of us may be the only Bible some people will ever read--so it's in the "living out" that is the proof of what we truly believe. Are you more gentle; more caring; more willing to admit being wrong; more willing to forgive quickly when you are the one wronged; are you wiling to go the extra mile to make amends; are you struggling to be more like the Master?"