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Does anyone know or care to comment on why PJPII refused to take the papal oath?

Jason B

Whats the Papal oath and how do you know he has not done it?

Hi Pavel,

Here is the text of the Papal oath:

I vow to change nothing of the received Tradition, and nothing thereof I have found before me guarded by my God-pleasing predecessors, to encroach upon, to alter, or to permit any innovation therein;

To the contrary: with glowing affection as her truly faithful student and successor, to safeguard reverently the passed-on good, with my whole strength and utmost effort;

To cleanse all that is in contradiction to the canonical order, should such appear;

To guard the Holy Canons and Decrees of our Popes as if they were the Divine ordinances of Heaven, because I am conscious of Thee, whose place I take through the Grace of God, whose Vicarship I possess with Thy support, being subject to the severest accounting before Thy Divine Tribunal over all that I shall confess;

I swear to God Almighty and the Savior Jesus Christ that I will keep whatever has been revealed through Christ and His Successors and whatever the first councils and my predecessors have defined and declared.

I will keep without sacrifice to itself the discipline and the rite of the Church. I will put outside the Church whoever dares to go against this oath, may it be somebody else or I.

If I should undertake to act in anything of contrary sense, or should permit that it will be executed, Thou willst not be merciful to me on the dreadful Day of Divine Justice.

Accordingly, without exclusion, We subject to severest excommunication anyone -- be it ourselves or be it another -- who would dare to undertake anything new in contradiction to this constituted evangelic Tradition and the purity of the Orthodox Faith and the Christian Religion, or would seek to change anything by his opposing efforts, or would agree with those who undertake such a blasphemous venture. (Liber Diurnus Romanorum Pontificum, Patrologia Latina 1005, S. 54)


This oath has been taken by all popes from the year 681 up until John Paul II who did not take it, so I am informed, along with rejecting the triple tiara.

I am wondering if anyone has any clue as to why he did this.

Jason

Glad you brought that up!

We have here a more worthy Pope who has not only taken the Papal Oath, but even did so before he was a bishop. He's got all the credentials.

His Holiness taking the Oath in the English-basement crypt chapel of the Basilica [truecatholic.org]

I believe the triple Tiara was out being cleaned on this occasion.

Good Lord deliver us from heretics and schismatics and trailer park popes.

Brothers and Sisters:

I believe that John Paul I was the first to ask that the investiture consist of an enthronement and that the triple tiara not be used. Pope Paul VI gave his away during his pontificate.

I wonder where this "oath" came from. If you look carefully at the text itself, it doesn't look like it was written by any one of the legitimate Popes over the centuries or even used.

First of all, an oath is different from a vow and the first line gives away the confusion of the writer over this distinction.

Then it moves back and forth from an oath to a prayer addressed--I assume--to Christ.

Then there is the reference to Canons, which we know are humanly made for the governance of the Church which are compared to Divine Revelation--come on!!

What does the "first councils" mean? Which ones are referred to here?

And how does a Pope put himself outside the Church? And how does one bind someone else to one's own oath?

How about "severest excommunication"? Excommunication is severe enough.

IMHO, either this is one of the poorest translations of what might be part of the Tradition or someone in one of the SSPX fringe groups has pulled a fast one on someone. In any event, this is one of the poorest renderings of anything that I have seen of the English language since my days teaching the language. I'd send this one back for a rewrite. The language and the flow of thought gives it away as something composed by someone else than a Pope in any part of history--unless the translator is completely inept.

In his defense, Pope John Paul II has been one of the toughest guardians of the Catholic Faith we have had. The liberals all hate him and many openly pray for the day they lay him out and break his ring. My bet is that if this is a legitimate oath he has taken it. He wasn't elected as someone who was a raving liberal or one who would do away with anything. He was elected because he was widely known as a tough conservative and a stalwart defender of the Faith.

In Christ,

BOB

P.S.: BTW, what does this have to do with the Byzantine Church or the Catholic and Orthodox Christians who are part of that great tradition?

Bob,

I have to agree with you on the quality of translation, if that's what it is. I was able to track a bit of this:

One site, without other comment, says it was taken by all Popes since Pope St. Agatho in 681, except John Paul I and John Paul II. See:
Apologia on the Papal Oath [kensmen.com]

It's also cited on a very traditionalist site, the webmaster of which is a Father David Trosch, who appears to be at more than a bit of odds with his local bishop in Mobile, Alabama. The site claims union with Rome, but speaks of John Paul's grave offenses and then calls sedevacantist activity meritorious (though the webmaster claims to reject it himself). The oath is recited on that page as part of posting space granted to Michael Dimond, a sedevacanist of some note and also appears on a separate page of its own.

There are probably 75 other web references to it, each site more further along the continuum from traditional to radical traditional. A quick search of my library didn't unearth any references to it.

Many years,

Neil

intresting.

Here is a listserve where this topic was discussed. Interesting answers.

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00BG2x


Jason B

I never knew there were so many Popes around. How is Peter's Pence actually distributed anyhow?

Anton

Evidently, one of them is getting the lion's share!

Michael