www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Question

I am sorry if this is obvious, but...

Is there any difference between the Byzantine rite churches(such as Ruthenian and Melkite)?

Yes, several.

The most obvious is, of course, cultural. Melkites have more Middle-Eastern elements in their culture and Ruthenians more East-European.

There are also small variations in the Liturgy.

Some Eastern Catholic Churches use the old calendar and some the new calendar.

Diversity is wonderful!

Shalom,
Memo

Thank you for your reply Memo,

If you don't mind my narrowing the question...

are there any theological differences, however slight?

Edit: I also agree that diversity is good

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that the use of English is more widespread Stateside. I would say that the differences betwwen rites are more obvious where differing vernacular or traditional languages are used, in that the sound and feel of different languages carry their different philosophical emphases. Go to an Arabic/English Melkite liturgy and a Ukrainian one and you will feel (rather than hear so muc) their differences.

Theologically, there are subtlties between Rites, but also within Rites. Over here, the Ukrainians are less Latinised (I beleive) than the Ruthenian Ukrainians Stateside. So it depends where you are as much as on the rite.

N

I also agree that diversity is good, in non-essential elements.

As far as I know there are only two theological systems acknowledged in the (Roman) Catholic Communion: The latin and the orthodox.

For Roman Catholics, it is necessary to recognize the Orthodox theology as equally valid expression of Faith. For Eastern Catholics, it is necessary to recognize latin theology as an equally valid expression of Faith.

This is not to say that it is possible to follow both theologies concurrently, but one might be able to understand them both, at least in some simple fashion.

Theoretically then, all of the Byzantine rite Catholic churches (Melkite, Ukrainian, Ruthenian, Russian) teach the same theology, which is identical to Orthodox theology (except most would say it allows the papal additions).

In the pews however, there are quite a few eastern Catholics who mix and match their theology and devotions. Devotions are usually adaptable to another understanding so that should not be an issue in private practice, but theological mixing (one from column -A-, one from column -B-)is not comprehensive. One should pick a theological system and stick with it, they are not meant to mix.

The liturgy in Orthodoxy (and Byzantine Catholicism for the most part) supports and enhances ones understanding of Orthodox theology. It is like a continuum of theology one can learn from merely by observing the liturgical cycles. This is the finest example of Lex Orandi - Lex Credendi I know of. It is best not to try and carry Latin understandings into the liturgy of St John Chrysostom/St Basil, because that makes the liturgy more like an "acted out" performance instead of a true expression of the Faith.

+T+
Michael

Dear Emu,

There most certainly ARE theological differences!

In the Ukrainian Catholic Church, not knowing Ukrainian can be hazardous to your spiritual health.

For one thing, you won't understand many of the services. Your moral state will be in danger from the angry arguments and looks of those who don't like the priest "mixing in" English into the services.

Then there are those who call themselves "Orthodox in comunion with Rome" and, according to the more "Catholic" parishioners in the church, are on a slippery slope down toward . . . full union with Orthodoxy . . . or even worse!

In the Byzantine Catholic Church, if you are a Ukrainian nationalist who thinks that Rusyns are really stubborn Ukrainians who just like to make trouble, then you are anathema, for sure!

There are other differences that our people argue over in a way that would make some of the fisticuffs that went on during the Ecumenical Councils look like a handshake contest!

Cheers,

Alex

Alex

This is a wee bit gloomy
Bilingual books can be obtained and though many folk in my parish are 'native' Ukrainians some are English speaking and until 3 weeks ago NO English was used in Services - just a very brief set of announcements at the end. I used to print out the Readings and take them with me - now I don't need to - the Readings are being read/chanted first in Ukrainian and then read in English by one of the English speakers.

Yes the non -Ukrainian speaker is watched with a degree of caution at the beginning - but I was accepted over a period of some weeks.

The reality is that the incomer has to take things gently - once accepted ...well ..........

Anhelyna

Dear Anhelyna,

I was kidding, you know!

But, all kidding aside, I really get miffed when non-Ukies come into OUR Church ( ) and then learn Ukrainian and speak it better than our OWN people!

That is a bit much, don't you think?

A good Holy Thursday to you!

Ta! (In Ukrainian, it's "Pa!")

Alex

Actually, even when English is used in the respective liturgical services the melodies of the 8 tones are markedly different. The Melkite melodies are Greek tones.

I'll be sure to avoid your church then!

Do pobachennya!

Dr. Eric

Dunno about speaking it - my vocab is strictly liturgical and very limited too

The question is can you type in it yet

still waiting for that translation

Thank you for the replies everyone

Hesychios, or anyone,

Are there any good books or websites you could point me to in regards to the difference between Latin and Orthodox theology?