www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Role Reversal

So, I’ve asked a few questions of this forum community and some friends and priests, but I want to approach the question I’ve been mulling over from a different angle and I’m hoping everyone here can come through for me again.

Why SHOULDN’T I transfer Rites and become Byzantine? For those deeply immersed in Byzantine traditions and theology, what do you wish you knew that you didn’t before transferring rites or converting (if you did) and what would you tell someone to be cautious of who is in my situation?

Christ is in our midst!!

First of all, as a Catholic Christian, you may attend any parish of any of the 21 sui juris Churches and you don't need to go through the legality of formal transfer from one to another. The only reason for a formal transfer is if you are about to be married or enter a seminary. I am sure that any parish will welcome you with open arms if you want to get involved in its activities and work to build up the parish and its members. As for "SHOULDN'T," I'll leave that to the members here. Each person's pilgrimage is personal, and it seems to me to be arrogant and pretentious for me to offer any advice not knowing who you are, what you have been through, and what would be beneficial for your immortal soul.

Theophan,

Thank you for the quick reply and prudent point about context. So anyone can give the beat answer possible, here is the afore mentioned context:

My wife and I (both Roman Catholics) have been attending a (Ruthenian) Byzantine parish for about 2 years. We’ve fallen in love with the Liturgy, the flow of the liturgical year, the theology, and the (T/t)raditions of the Byzantine Rite. Truly, we feel that it has helped us grow in our faith and are both inclined to view our time in the Roman church as a sojourn, not vice versa. We are both of the opinion that we should transfer Rites, however, we have three (soon the be four) sons and moving, though not an imminent prospect, is an option on the horizon. We understand canonically that we are free to attend any church sui juris as we see fit, and the transfer of Rite is a somewhat moot point for us, but the way it could affect our sons (the oldest of whom is 6, to give an idea of age ranges) is what concerns us. Additionally, the the prospect of a move complicates things as well as our Byzantine parish is well established and very active. The more we think it through, however, it seems “cheap” to not transfer Rites based solely on the convenience of access to Roman Catholic parishes/Sacraments. I’m looking for reasons I may not have thought of that we should not transfer Rites.

Chooch factor:

I know many have said and will continue to say that outside of marriage and orders there’s no reason for anyone to formally/canonically transfer Church ascription.

However, parish membership should reflect Church sui iuris ascription. So if one is a member of a parish, in most cases one should be ascribed to the Church sui iuris of the Eparchy which has jurisdiction over the parish. This rights and obligations of the Christian faithful enumerated in both the Latin and Eastern codices are determined by one’s ascription in a particular Church sui iuris. For example, a Catholic ascribed in the Latin Church who is a “member” of a Ruthenian Catholic parish does not have the same rights as the Catholic ascribed in the Ruthenian Catholic Church sui iuris.

An imperfect analogy could be found in way the rights and obligations are exercised by those living in the United States. The USG recognizes various persons living in the US: citizens; resident aliens; etc. While most persons who reside in the US enjoy the same basic rights and obligations, only the citizen enjoys the fullness of those rights and obligations.

Your analogy is very apt. My wife and I are registered parishioners in our Byzantine parish and, though they are incredibly welcoming, we do feel like “resident aliens”.

An alternative view of the question; rather than delving into spiritual matters or theological matters explicitly, what we’re some things that may have required an “adjustment period” for anyone who has transferred Rites that you hadn’t thought of before you transferred? How have you changed your spiritual practice at home to accommodate more limited liturgical services and how (if at all) have you transitioned kids who are old enough to recognize the departure into the Byzantine Rite from the Latin Rite? How has your spiritual practice at home changed?

I hope this is not too late, chooch factor,

Byzantine rite is more about images or icons rather than statues. The "Jesus Prayer" is the staple food of orthodoxy, a very simple, small, repetitive, yet profound prayer that is prayed with a rope.

You need to invest in the following which can be mostly found on amazon:

1. a number of icons, candles, with specific quiet corner for them to pray. Icons can be pricey, so shop around
2. prayer book of ☦ and the Rope for Jesus prayer
3. familiarize yourself with saints and early fathers of the early church or buy a book about saints of that era
4. google is your best friend when looking for something, really filled with tutorials to your heart's content

Depending on what service you attend, if it's fully Byzantine, expect lengthy service starting as early as 8:15 am starting with Ortho, followed by Divine Liturgy for an hour or so. Expect to be standing most of the time. No kneelers. When kneeling, you simply have to kneel on the floor.

If you attend Byzantine Catholic, then the Liturgy will last only one hour more or less. The church usually combines aspect of Both the Catholic and the Orthodox church with both statues and icons, kneelers, Rosary prayers, novena. Really beautiful combination marriage between Orthodoxy and Catholicism at its best.

Blessings on your spiritual quest!

I am a Latin Catholic, but, I do incorporate some Eastern Christian practices into my private devotional life. I may become an Eastern Catholic, one day, but, so far, I have discerned, at this point in time, that is not for me.

My thoughts:

The current line I've heard in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and what I get from reading papal stuff about easterners:

1. The popes want easterners to be legit easterners and have gone so far as to forbid them to adopt latinizations (read about the creation of the Melkites when the Antiochian Orthodox Patriarch re established communion with Rome).

2. As a Ukrainian Catholic parishioner, our Bishop Benedict from Chicago, in one of his letters to the folks in his eparchy he reminded us that we're supposed to be standing during prayers at home and at church.

My conclusion: if you are easterner, be eastern. Learn your faith from the easterners, whether Orthodox or EC. With an exception to anti Papal rhetoric (half of which is attacking the straw man more than anything), it all says the same thing. I currently attend a Byzantine Catholic Monastery church and just do whatever the hegumen tells us to do because traditionally an abbot is like a mini Bishop over his monastery in the east.

Also, if you have small children and become eastern then they'll get the remainder of the sacraments and can receive Holy Communion, even if you attend Mass at a Latin Church (lots of fun seeing my two year old open up wide so the Priest can place the Body of Christ on his tongue...)

Catholic is Catholic. Live the Gospel, receive the Sacraments PROPERLY (i.e., not in your hand and not out of grace), and practice the devotions that bring you into communion with God. All these labels, semantics, ethnic divisions give me a headache.