www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall A question

Hello, I'm not sure where I am supposed to post this so I hope that posting it here won't cause any issues. I want to convert to Eastern Catholicism, but there are no Eastern parishes near me. I used to be a Protestant (more specifically Reformed Baptist), but I discovered Eastern Christianity (more specifically Orthodox Christianity). When I learned more about Apostolic Christianity, I ceased believing in Protestantism and I wanted to convert to Orthodox Christianity, but in my heart I feel that union with Rome is greater than becoming an Orthodox Christian. I am currently in RCIA (Latin Rite Catechumen), but I want to be a Byzantine Catholic. Is it possible to become a Byzantine Catholic without changing rites, or would I have to change it later in my life?

Christ is in our midst!!

SomeInquirer,

Welcome to the forum. We hope your time with us is spiritually rewarding.

As to your question, may I suggest you put this to the RCIA team in the parish you are currently atortending.

Bob
Moderator

Why do you not want to become Orthodox?

I will post a challenge here (and to any Catholic members who may be here): the "catholic" (i.e. universal) faith, has been defined as "that which has been believed in all times, at all places, and by all people." (St. Vincent of Lerins). To leave this faith, which was expressed by the universal church of the first 10 centuries, is to leave the Church. Therefore, for me to return to the Catholic Church, which I left for Orthodoxy, Catholics must prove to me the following was taught by the first Christian pastors in the united Church:

The Immaculate Conception
The Filioque Clause to the Creed (which is part of an ecumenical council and an anathema is attached to those who would change the wording of a council)
Papal Supremacy (as opposed to collegiality of the bishops)
Papal Infallibility
Purgatory
Indulgences
Juridical Salvation (as opposed to the medicinal salvation of the East)
Baptism by sprinkling as normative rather than three-fold immersion in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Withholding the Eucharist from infant children (which means they are not fully members of Christ's mystical Body)
Appointment of bishops in sui juris jurisdictions by the pope. Early conciliar canons prohibit the meddling of one bishop in the territory of another.


Although it doesn't look like it, I am not stating this to start trouble. Indeed, I just found out yesterday that a good friend of my converted to the Roman Church and I congratulated him on this.

BUT - If you truly want to go East, then you should consider Orthodoxy. The Byzantine Catholics are fine people, but you will find that in many of the parishes, they are much more Roman Catholic than Orthodox, even though they claim to the "Orthodox in Communion with Rome."

Finally, I say this as a Protestant convert myself who was Byzantine Catholic for 21 years, so I do have skin in the game. I honestly wish the dear Orthodox priest, whose Saturday Vespers I was attending as a Protestant, had sat me down and catechized me thoroughly, especially on the leadership of the Church and the history of the ecclesiology of the Christian faith. I learned a lot from being BCC, but ultimately, it was not the same as being fully Orthodox.

If you continue to the Roman Catholic Church and join, I wish you only the best. Certainly, the Lord will bless you wherever you are, but as I said, if you are really attracted to the beauty of the Eastern Liturgy and its prayers, perhaps you need to slow down a bit and study more history of the East and the differences in doctrine and praxis between the East and West.

Whatever your choice, may God richly bless you.

So, you accept Lerins' dictum (as you state it in part) as valid?

I will turn the question back on you. Do you think that the universal faith which was left to the Apostles and promoted by the Early Church is open to change?

First you should explain your view of the proposition you put forth so we know where you stand. Then on to your question.

My answer is my view. St. Vincent of Lerins made it quite clear what constitutes the universal faith. Inventing new dogmas that did not exist during the first 1,000 years of the Church does not fall within the parameters of what he said. And I made it pretty clear with my list of inventions what exactly I am talking about.

I constantly run into apologists from the West who will take some quote from an Early Father completely outof context or make it say something that it doesn't mean as a way of trying to defend their position. So now you tell me what right the West had to make these changes.

OK, you accept Lerins; so do I ( but of course there are interpretations of what it means in application). However, you are already getting ahead of the details in trying to advance your position. Why only during "the first 1,000 years"? Why not even sooner? Lerins lived in the 5th century.

Become Orthodox since that was your first call.

So, act on first impulse without further study and discernment?

First of all, how far is the nearest Eastern Catholic parish from you?

Secondly, you may join the Catholic Church either through the Roman Rite or one of the Eastern Rites. Either way, you become a full member of the Catholic Church. As such, you may worship at and receive the Sacraments at *any* Catholic church, Eastern or Western, and become a parish member. There are some canonical issues (where to have your kids baptized, confirmed/chrismated, marriage, etc.) the details of which I'm not sure about, that might affect you later on, but for all intents and purposes you can be received into the RCC and be, in mind/heart/spirit, an Eastern Catholic. Or you can later on petition to change your Rite from Roman to Byzantine, etc.

I would say, though, that you will learn little to nothing about Eastern Christianity by attending RCIA, unless it has significantly changed since I was a sponsor a number of years ago. So, if you want to learn about Eastern Christianity AND become Catholic, depending on your answer to my initial question, you may have to make some long journeys.

Hope that helps some!

In Christ,
JM

You currently are in RCIA, thus you are not yet a Catholic. You could try finding an Eastern Catholic parish near you and be baptized there.

From the 1990 CCEO:
"Canon 30 - Anyone to be baptized who has completed the fourteenth year of age can freely select any Church sui iuris in which he or she then is enrolled by virtue of baptism received in that same Church, with due regard for particular law established by the Apostolic See."

If you are baptized in a Latin parish's RCIA, you will be be enrolled as a Latin-rite.

You can try finding an Eastern-rite parish and telling them your situation and explaining how you already have some RCIA training.

But, if you choose to go through and be baptized and confirmed and therefore enrolled as a Latin, you must petition an Eastern Catholic pastor or just ask your bishop (chancery) probably, to switch your rite. This only works if there is an Eastern Catholic jurisdiction of the desired rite in that area. If not, the bishop will have to ask the Vatican. Either way, if you want to specifically by Byzantine, become a Ruthenian. Just ask that Ruthenian pastor for advice. I am not sure on your location so this is general advice.

Correction since I read carefully, since you are in the United states, the Ukrainian and Byzantine (Ruthenian) eparchies cover the entire continental United States. You simply can just complete RCIA and ask the Latin bishop for a transfer, or, you can try contacting any possible nearest parish and seeing if there could be something like long-distance RCIA, and just go to the parish eventually to receive the Sacraments.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

Christ is in our midst!!

This thread has become less than charitable and for that reason I am locking it.

This is Christmas. This is the time God became man in order that man might become like God. This thread shows that we have far, far to go.

Bob
Moderator