www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Reconciling my Latin mind

Maybe your Father Confessor can help you better discern this.
And God of course. He can help you if you pray to Him to send help through people and events on what this means to you. Psalm 50(51) is said to help people get clarification on God's will.

The age of reason is more of a tradition than a requirement, the Eastern Catholics certainly have no problem giving the Eucharist to infants. It is your choice if you want to follow the tradition of the Latin Church or the Eastern Catholic Churches.

Scapulars are private revelation and thus don't have to be believed in.

You are not required to believe in any apparitions, whether of Lourdes, Fatima, Akita, etc.

You are not required to believe in any private revelations, even if they have been approved by the Church.

You are required to believe in natural theology as it does not originate from the Church, but from literally philosophy and common sense.

As far as I know if I am correct, all you are required to believe is that there is a place of purification before Heaven after death, and that indulgences and prayers help the souls there. The question of indulgences has to deal on the authority of the Church. You are strictly speaking, challenging the authority of the Church, that is, the power of binding and loosening that is given in Scripture. If you reject indulgences, you reject Scripture.

You are required to believe in mortal/venial sins, this distinction has existed before the 1054 date. This again is an issue of do you accept Scripture or not. You must believe in confessing by kind and numbers. Here is a quote from Saint John Chrysostom: "Whence we learn that we must determine the penance, not only by the nature of the sins, but by the disposition and habit of them that sin. As the Apostle did in that instance."

What do you mean by legalism?

So simply, you have crossed a line. You can reject scapulars, and apparitions. But you cannot reject elements of the Faith.

I gave up trying to sort out the differences between Orthodox east and Roman west. I am uncomfortable living in the middle, as a byzantine Catholic. I want one side to just be 100% correct so I can assent without qualms. But that's just not reality. Rome gets things wrong, as do the Orthodox. The way I gauge my faith these days is how people react when they try to hash things out with me. If I'm too Orthodox for Roman Catholics and too Catholic for the eastern Orthodox than I must be doing something right.

Catholicism and Orthodoxy, regardless of which is more true or correct, are both paths to salvation. So whichever one is present in your community is your best bet. If you have ethnic Orthodox parishes but decent Roman parishes, go that route. If you have horrible Roman parishes and a decent Orthodox parish nearby, go that route. If you have en eastern Catholic church within a reasonable commute, Id recommend that above all else.

Just keep in mind that we are byzantine Catholics. We don't abandon everything Catholic and fully embrace eastern orthodoxy, such as it is. Done right, we reconcile eastern Orthodoxy and Roman catholicism to one another.

Dear Tadhg,

I can absolutely relate to your struggles and validate them. Please be aware of the following facts:

1. We live in an OCEAN of Anglo-Protestant/Evangelical culture. Even for those who come from ethnic Catholic/Orthodox background.
2. We all struggle on daily basis with theological concepts, spiritual and emotional growth, fears & areas of disobedience to God.
3. Some theological concepts from both traditions do not seem to make any sense to us: Catholicism, Orthodoxy.

Realize that: we are all WORK IN PROGRESS, growing on daily basis, learning from each other....here, in your parish, books, websites like this, resources, events, coworkers.....

Praying the Rosary has many benefits. Have you ever visited Our Lady of Fatima, if no, maybe a trip to Portugal is in order or perhaps you can check a parish that is organizing a trip there or your own parish.

I also highly recommend a visit to THE HOLY LAND, visiting the local churches, Greek Orthodox ☦ church and the Latin Church to reconcile both traditions. Be inquisitive, ask the local faithful and read, explore holy sites, watch as many resources as you can. Be humble and open-minded/hearted. Be an eternal student in the Church of God!

Christian Spirituality is UNDER ATTACK in all its angles, theology, spiritual quest/growth, marriage, family, courtship....No matter what tradition you favor!

Warm welcome to the fora. Hope it will be a blessing to you!

This is my first post here. I'm still trying to reconcile my mind on these issues. I converted to Catholicism ten years ago. After a decade of misery, I cut all ties. Soon after I began inquiring of the Orthodox Church. I am currently a catechumen at an OCA parish. But lately my mind has been wandering back to Rome, wondering if perhaps I was wrong, maybe Rome was right, etc. I'm still not sure. My time as a Catholic was a time of depression and suffering. Even a priest who I consider a friend told me perhaps I should leave the Church. In the Orthodox Church I feel more at peace, more able to love. Maybe that's the sign from God I've been waiting for. I don't know.

Christ is in our midst!!

SeekingTRuth,

Welcome to the forum.

Bob
Moderator

If you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in an apostolic Church, you will most likely be received by simple chrismation. That is how it happened to me. The funny thing was that I missed the first half of catechism classes, but Fr. David received me anyway on Holy Saturday of last year. When I was discussing this with my sponsor, Fr. Deacon Nicholas, he said "Well, you probably got "transfer credits" for being Eastern Catholic for 21 years!" LOL!

Very interesting. In a sense, could you perhaps (my personal theologoumenon here) that hell begins here on earth because we are A.) separated from God B.) not really human in the fullest sense that God intends for us, and C.) suffering many and various torments because of A and B.

Just a thought.

I'm a Latin rite Catholic convert who has also been exploring Eastern Rite Catholicism for some time. My two cents:

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to regarding hell. However, St. Isaac the Syrian (pre-Schism, so shared between Catholics and Orthodox) says,

"I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scourged by the scourge of love. For what is so bitter and vehement as the punishment of love? I mean that those who have become conscious that they have sinned against love suffer greater torment from this than from any fear of punishment. For the sorrow caused in the heart by sin against love is sharper than any torment that can be. It would be improper for a man to think that sinners in Gehenna are deprived of the love of God. Love is the offspring of knowledge of the truth which, as is commonly confessed, is given to all. The power of love works in two ways: it torments those who have played the fool, even as happens here when a friend suffers from a friend; but it becomes a source of joy for those who have observed its duties. Thus I say that this is the torment of Gehenna: bitter regret. But love inebriates the souls of the sons of Heaven by its delectability."

Given the age of this quote, I wouldn't concern myself with a "Dante-esque" hell. I have personally found comfort viewing hell in this way. I obviously don't want to go there, but this concept of hell being a torment primarily because we didn't love as we should still puts the emphasis on the love of Christ, rather than the fear of punishment.

As for "a very Latin Mary," I would respectfully disagree with your description. In the West, Mary has appeared in multiple different cultures and representations. She has appeared as a Mexican woman in Guadalupe, European in Lourdes, Indian in Velangkanni, African in Kibeho, Vietnamese in La Vang, etc. As for telling them to pray the Rosary, it would make sense for Mary to encourage Latin rite Catholics to pray a Latin rite devotion as it developed in that rite. Indulgences are not incorrect, they're simply an application of grace. You aren't obligated to wear the Scapular, although it is a beautiful devotion for some.

Regarding mortal and venial sin, here is a quote from Scripture:

"All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which does not lead to death." - 1 John 5:17

This also implies that there is a sin which does lead to death.

My baby just woke up so I need to go. I hope this is helpful.

Christ is in our midst!!

mercy seeker,

I have likened the difference between Heaven and Hell to be the "thickness of your skin." What I mean by that is this.

Our God is a consuming, living fire. Heaven begins when the love of God begins to burn in one's heart. It continues in eternity. OTOH, the fire of God's love wraps itself around even those who reject Him and refuse to allow Him into their hearts. Can you imagine the torment of being embraced for eternity by One Who you don't love?