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Mar 25th, 2025
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Thanks, I was not familiar with that article.
The danger, of course, is that priests will simply print it out and run with it, figuring that the approval will never come. (I've certainly not heard of any discussion of it. And as you can see, it was brought up by the Liturgical Commission in 1980!)
Priest Thomas
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Originally posted by Deacon Lance:
Another question. Is not the combining of the Great Vespers and the Office of the Myrhh-bearers minus New Skete changes/peculiarities what has been authorized to be used in OCA parshes? Or is the New Vigil something different?
Fr. Deacon Lance Deacon Lance, As far as I can tell from their texts the office of Vespers as presented above is Vespers alone. Matins is presented for Sunday separately. Matins has 6 Psalms, "God is the Lord," Psalm 50, the Magnificat with verses, etc. It does not present Vespers as a Vigil service. The Vigil in the received tradition is great Vespers plus Matins plus 1st hour. In their book Vespers and Matins are presented separately. There may be other things I am missing. Yesterday was a 19 hour day, a bit longer than usual for me, I was a little tired at the end of the day and still am. Tony
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Fr. Thomas, our local OCA parish [Bulgarian-OCA] has the entirety of Great Vespers for Saturday night.
Immediately at the conclusion the Prokimenon of Matins is taken, "Let everything that has breath", the Gospel, and while everyone is venerating the Gospel Psalm 50 and the post-Psalm 50 stikhera are sung, then dismissal. Is this used in other parishes or just a local variation? This is an abbreviation of what Fr. Schmemann had proposed for his restoration of a Cathedral vigil.
The other OCA parish in our area as well as the Antiochians just follow the standard Great Vespers [although the Antiochians also celebrate Orthros in the morning].
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It would be difficult for me to say what other parishes are doing regarding Vespers. I do know that one local OCA parish was doing something like that, and then transitioned to the "Cathedral Vigil" that was outlined by Meyendorff. I'm not sure that it lasted long, however.
Again, whether all this is done with the knowledge of the bishop is another question. So, it gives the impression that somehow this is officially sanctioned within the OCA, when in fact, it may not be.
Priest Thomas
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Just to throw this into the mix, there is this recent paper by Bishop TIKHON of the Diocese of the West which addresses the Vigil issue. Directions for an All-Night Vigil [ ocadow.org]
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Dear Father Thomas,
Christ is among us!
A very interesting offering from Bishop Tikhon. Thank you for the link! His Grace refers to his "Divine Liturgy with notes for serving". Is that also available on the web?
Elias
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What in Bishop Tikhon's directive differs from the Typikon? His directive seems to be do it all exactly the way we have been doing it, or rather the way we would like it done if any parish would do it.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Father Victor Potapov also has an interesting commentary on the Vigil at http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/vigil_v_potapov.htm I also thank Fr. Thomas for the article. I share many of Bishop Tikohn's sentiments and opinions in his essay. The vsenoshcnoe bdenie is a rarest of gems and a true manifestation of the Russian/Kievan liturgical genius. I especially can relate to his statement: I am one of those who laments the disappearance of the All-Night Vigil
from ordinary parish life in our Orthodox Church in America, because it is
one of the most beautiful aspects of parish life. Many writers have described
the Vigil, especially as they remember it from childhood, as an especially
meaningful part of their religious formation. My fondest memory of my entire diaconal formation was just that, when we organized and prayed the All-Night Vigil for the feast of the Transfiguration based on the 1911 observations of Skaballanovich in Kiev. Like the emissaries of St. Vladimir, I will never forget the grandeur and beauty of that service. Granted, to do that on a parish level would be difficult. So the enigma remains of implementing a "cathedral vigil" along the lines as that proposed by Fr. Schmemann of blessed memory and later articulated in the Meyendorff article quoted above; or to keep the Vigil along the track of a more received form as Bishop Tikhon is suggesting. Along with this is the degree that "pastoral sensitivity" has to do with it. While personally I am more sympathetic to Bishop Tikhon's approach, both certainly have merits and ultimately the hierarchs will have to decide. Perhaps offer the choice of the received order as Bishop Tikhon has described, or an alternative one according to the proposals of Fr. Schmemann and the OCA Liturgical Commission of the 80s (of which Meyendorff's article is basically a summary)? This might eliminate to some extent the individual parish experimentation leading to what Bishop Tikhon refers to as a "parish typikon".
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Father Thomas,
Very well indeed, thank you. I am so grateful for these links, and for the very clear help and explanations given by His Grace. I'm looking forward to looking at them carefully, maybe this evening.
Elias
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Originally posted by Tony: Originally posted by Deacon Lance:
[b] Tony,
Could you post outlines for the 1988 book's services?
Here goes the 1988 Vespers for Saturday night, I will post Matins later.
[/b]Dear Deacon Lance, Sorry it has taken so long to get to this. Here it goes, from the 1988, "A Book of Prayers." Blessed is the kingdom... Glory to God... X3 Lord, Open my lips.. x2 Unit of PSS. 3, 19(18), 63(62), GBNE, Alleluia X3 Let us pray => "the opening prayer" The Lord God is our light, etc troparia as usual "then we sit for a reading either from the scriptures, or from the father, or from other such writings...." GBNE Alleluia X3 Let us pray => prayer for the reading sessional hymns Ps. 51(50) on Sunday with opening verses Let us pray => prayer of Ps 50 Canticle of the Three Youths Let us pray => prayer of the canticle Kondak Magnificat as usual Let us pray => prayer of the praises The Praises = Ps. 148, 149, 150, G: Sticheron in tone, NE: You are most blessed...as usual Great Doxology in usual format with usual intro tropar according to tone Litany Litany "angel of peace" Peace bowing of heads Wisdom Bless! Usual dismissal Tony
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