www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Ukraine, Russia, crime, real and imagined

I am a Latin Rite Catholic from Texas, USA. My knowledge of culture in the East is mostly via visiting Poland, the Czech Republic, and knowing some immigrants from Russia, Ukraine, etc. So, I seek insight and knowledge from people
more authentically informed on these subjects. I wish nothing but the blessings of our God for the innocent people of Russia of The Ukraine. Yet, as I see it, a tyrant dictator is laying siege to any structure or living creature in the sovereign nation of Ukraine. I must support the govt of the USA and all others providing any and all weapons to aid the Ukrainian military. There are a small number of pundits in the USA that try to put the nation and govt of Ukraine on a moral equivalency with Vlad Putin, making claims of "money laundering" :"human trafficking" and corruption. My own nation has problems with those issues, and I suspect that any former Soviet territory might struggle with these issues for some time.
I would ask members of this forum to offer any insightful information on these issues in Ukraine. Much thanks, Chris from Texas.

Christ is Risen:

CGleasn:

Welcome to the forum.

Bob
Moderator

Go past the first 30 minutes. It is an intro which is necessary because there is a time-lag between their broadcasts and the log in of subscribers.

Look over the Redacted site and review their broadcasts. Then stop listening to CNN and the other shills for our corrupt government.

"Former Fox & Friends host Clayton Morris ( and his wife Natali) has left the United States and moved his family to Portugal while facing more than two-dozen lawsuits alleging he committed real-estate fraud."
Source:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ex-fo...-leaves-us-amid-dozens-of-fraud-lawsuits

Their business ventures are as hoax-filled as their " newscasts". Their stories prey upon disenchanted, populist gulibility for misinformation.

Mediabiasfactcheck.com concluded:

"In general, Redacted publishes a mix of factual and misleading conspiracy-type stories that would appeal to........ anti-establishment audience."

Here is the report:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/redacted-bias/

CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, and other real news sources, deserve better than to be compared to this type of showmanship. These psudo-news podcasts make fools of people with their "sensational" and "revealing" twists on truth- and their " reporters" seem to have no shame, nor guilt, about perpetrating falsehoods that could lead to serious consequences...........

Utter load of garbage, sir. Apparently you do not listen to his broadcasts. He has on people who have been in the government of the United States and former military generals. He quotes people who are on the ground in Ukraine, not pontificating from CNN and the safety of their broadcast booth.

And the Daily Beast is a left-wing piece of garbage I wouldn't wipe my dog's butt with. I have no doubt they are lying about him and his wife, just as they lie about all conservatives. That you would identify as a Christian and listen to those who hate us is beyond puzzling to me.

Quote: "That you would identify as a Christian and listen to those who hate us is beyond puzzling to me."

Well, since you raised the question,

The Christianity that I believe in isn't an arm of politics. It doesn't teach that it is the sole owner of any nation. It doesn't paranoically devide the world into those that are for us and those that hate us, as that would only lead to more hate. It has no earthly agenda. It leaves an earthly Kingdom up to God.

Rather, it teaches the Beatitudes. It teaches that the Kingdom of God begins within one's heart and mind, not with any earthly construct. 

And........it aspires to be the Light of the World, not its Occupier.

Now it's my turn......

"That you identify as an American and listen to those who hate democracy is equally puzzling to me."

I happen to agree with you. The Republican Party is far from being the party of God or any such nonsense like that. They are on record as grinding the faces of the poor, supporting Capitalism, and being warmongers in general. But when it comes to having to choose someone to lead our country, I have no other choice (unless we could get some real and unashamed Christians running) - the Democrat Party has morphed into a bunch of left-wing, Marxist radicals whose actions show that they hate Christianity, hate America, and hate freedom. The things they are supporting now should make every Christian deeply concerned. They support every immoral degeneracy which pops up and make fun of and persecute those who reject their sexual proclivities.

And the media in this country is their propaganda arm. They are sold out to the Left and the lies.

But honestly, I have to hold my nose when I go to vote. Right now, it is just that putrid, a choice between the lesser of two evils. One should not have to choose in that manner, agreed?

Well, I will agree with you that the candidate pool in American politics leaves a lot to be desired. That said, we must remind ourselves that we live in a democracy, not a theocracy or monarchy. We have built, as most of the Western world, a government founded upon the separation of church and state.

You state:
-" the Democrat Party has morphed into a bunch of left-wing, Marxist radicals whose actions show that they hate Christianity, hate America, and hate freedom. The things they are supporting now should make every Christian deeply concerned. They support every immoral degeneracy which pops up and make fun of and persecute those who reject their sexual proclivities."

I believe this to be an over- generalization and an unfair judgement, and here is why:

Believe it or not, I am old fashioned just like you. There are a many issues that make me upset also. Many of them have to do with lifestyles that are foreign to my values. The problem is this though.......Democracy is an evolving ideology.

In its infancy, democracy tolerated slavery. Then came the time to abolish it. Soon, it grew to give female citizens the vote, but not untill the early 20th century. Then came the civil rights acts of the 1960s. And so, democracy grows and becomes deeper with each generation. From time to time, it is pruned for stronger growth, usually by the judicial system. But it continues to grow. Why? For the simple fact that a democracy that is exclusive.... and not inclusive....is not heading for maturity. Exclusive democracies are not fully developed democracies.

So here is my point, just because a person, or candidate, supports the civil rights of all citizens does not mean he supports or condones their life choices. Sure, we might seek out candidates that share our values, but we must be careful that we don't vote ourselves back into a time of intolerance. We must be careful that our vision of democracy is something just for us- our exclusive version of democracy.

We live in the Western world. Sometimes it is very tricky to juggle religious values with civil rights. But that is what we must do. It is one of the prices we pay to have the best of both worlds, freedom of religious belief, and civil liberties.

Now, to the topic at hand.....Ukraine desires to join the 21st century. Its' people want the civil rights enjoyed by Western countries. Does that mean they are decadent? Does that mean they now condone promiscuity? Of course not. And what right does another nation have to deny them that choice? None.
Quite frankly, I believe the Russian people also want to join the 21st century, it's just that they can do very little about it.

It has been an interesting exchange of ideas, Edward H,
Wishing you the best, Christ is Risen!


Get Outlook for Android

Sorry , I used the wrong word in one sentence from above......paragraph 6, last sentence....


"We must be careful that our vision of democracy (isn't) something just for us- our exclusive version of democracy"

Thanks for your patience with a poor typist.....

Hutsul and Edward, Thank you both for your contributions. If I may regress to my original question, do you think that any opponents of aiding Ukraine with weapons may tend to exaggerate the claims of "corruption" and "human trafficking" in Ukraine? Thanks, Chris

Christ is Risen!!

IMHO, anyone complaining about corruption in Ukraine needs to take the proverbial "plank out his own eye." We have experienced corruption on an industrial scale in this country for the past four years. In fact, if you do a historical search, you can find such corruption that has been hidden since the Progressive era of the early 20th century in our government and among our elites.