www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Ecumenical Patriarch accuses Russian Orthodox Church

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...8aa204dbdf4572a354f0c043a6e6a0&ei=35

This is a link to a story on MSM stating the His All-Holiness has accused the Russian Orthodox Church of being part of the war crimes in Ukraine, including deportation of Ukrainian children to the Russian Federation.

Thank you Ecumenical Patriarch for speaking out and standing for truth, even if it will sadly widen the schism within the Orthodox communion.

I'm a Latin rite Catholic who appreciates what the Ecumenical Patriarch has done to strengthen ties between our churches. He is the Andrew to our Peter. I hope we can get this schism business sorted out sooner rather than later.

This is a bold move from EP Bartholomew and I appreciate his forthrightness.

I think it is vital to make sure churches are not being used as a pawn by any one secular entity.

Russia's actions must be condemned, and often. Now let us also look to the 8 years of the war in Donbas. Can one say Ukraine's efforts were entirely clean and moral?

These are dark times.

Christ is Risen!!

OEFNavyVet,


I wonder what sources you have been reading about the Russian-backed insurrection in the Donbas prior to the current invasion. Russia sent "volunteers" from its regular army to back the insurgents who started a war against the legitimate Ukrainian government. That fact was reported in the news.

The current attempt to erase Ukrainian culture, language, and population there is genocide. The kidnapping of Ukrainian children to Russia and adopting them out to Russian families is cultural genocide. The idea that Ukrainians have no history separate from Russia is a myth. Deporting any Ukrainan to Russia for refusing to accept a Russian passport is cultural and human genocide.

The Mongols divided these two groups centuries before Ukraine was forced into Mother Russia. That there are two distinct languages and a culture that the Russians have been trying to erase since the Romanovs should be a hint.

As far as "clean and moral" go, what would you suggest a government do if foreign invaders infiltrated our country and hooked up with either a right or left wing group with the express intention of overthrowing our government? You list yourself as veteran, sworn to defend this country, its Constitution and our way of life. So?

Yes, indeed Bob!

Amen!

I will point out that the invasion of Donbas occurred two months AFTER the Western-backed (primarily American-backed) Euromaidan revolution overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine. Not defending the government that was overthrown, but these events are most likely connected.

Also, acceptance and enforcement of the Minsk Agreements would have prevented this horrible war. Now it is likely that the West was using the Minsk Agreements as a feint and delaying tactic to merely arm Ukraine for war.

Ukrainians are being sacrificed so that NATO, and more specifically America, can control Ukraine like a puppet. If people think Brussels and DC care about the intrinsic value of Ukrainian lives, then I have to say many are deceived. America will bravely fight to the last Ukrainian. I weep for Ukraine.

On my previous note, what I said about the Minsk Agreement is not even a conspiracy theory. Angela Markel HERSELF admitted that the Mink Agreement was a mere ruse to arm Ukraine. USA-NATO was never going to allow Ukraine to have peace. Ukraine is a pawn.

From a Dec. 2022 Interview with Die Zeit [zeit.de]

" Das Minsker Abkommen von 2014 war ein Versuch, der Ukraine Zeit zu geben. Sie haben diese Zeit genutzt, um stärker zu werden, was man heute sehen kann. Die Ukraine von 2014/15 ist nicht die Ukraine von heute. Wie wir bei den Kämpfen um Debalzewo Anfang 2015 sehen konnten, hätte Putin sie damals leicht einnehmen können.

Translation:

"The 2014 Minsk Agreement was an attempt to give Ukraine time. They used that time to get stronger, which you can see today. Ukraine of 2014/15 is not Ukraine of today. Like us at the If we saw fighting over Debaltsevo in early 2015, Putin could easily have captured it back then.

Mr NavyVet,

IF you are pointing to agreements etc. as a way to somehow justify Russia's genocidal war on the Ukrainian people - you are way off the mark. But that is between you and your God.

The story of Russian imperialism and this entire war has yet to be written but it will be. So you believe that it is vital to ensure that churches are not being used as a pawn by the state etc. Excuse me, and as a navy vet you will appreciate this, but that ship has already sailed a long time ago in Russia!

And as for pointing accusing fingers at people as you do, what about the military organization you belonged to? Why don't we start there? If you agree that it committed atrocities, then you as a former member are complicit in them.

At least it seems so to me

The thing is, I have no dog in this fight. I don't buy propaganda from any Secular State, be it Russia, Ukraine, America, or NATO. I grew to distrust government as I experienced it directly. Also, we're all technically complicit in any government crime, as our taxpayer funds are utilized to fund our late-stage Empire.

The fact is, the West aided the Euromaidan overthrow of a democratic government. That caused a Russian backlash. The Minsk Agreements were meant to avoid this horrifying catastrophe. Now it is clear the Ukrainians were a mere pawn for the West to just buy time, as Merkel herself said. I provided an actual, direct, mainstream source to verify my claim.

This is a Proxy War, and innocent Ukrainians are the pawns. Do you really think godless secular humanists in Brussels give one royal fig about the lives of conservative Ukrainian Christians?

The comments concerning NATO make NATO seem like the aggressor. NATO was formed as a defence "against" potential aggressor nations. It does not seek to conquer any territory....... It does not seek to impose any government...... It does promote any one economy......It does not promote any one religion.......And most of all....... it's purpose is not to bring "decadent Westernism" to the world..

After a lengthy review process, NATO has been accepting the membership of countries who feel they need help to ensure their way of life. 31 countries to date, Finland the latest, Sweden next. These countries want NATO, NATO isn't invading them to join. NATO isn't coercing them to join.These country's people are sick of authoritarian thugs who threaten their " life, liberty and pursuit of happiness". 

NATO is a front line of "democracy" in this world. There was a time when that term meant something to everyone. There was a time when that was an ideal worth defending in word and deed. But that was before upside down news, conspiracy theories, villianiztion of immigrants, and bible thumpers armed with AR-15s.

And that was before people- who feel so threatened by modernity- began to secretly envy authoritarianism.

( edited to include a missed word.........please forgive the repost)

Hutsul

Congratulations on a most brilliant and comprehensive post!!! (so much better than mine . ..)

I take my hat off to you!!!

And you think the godless pseudo-Orthodox in Moscow do? Putin having his war dog Prigozhin turn on him only serves to expose the corruption of Russia. How anyone can be an apologist for Russia and its crimes and critize NATO for arming Ukraine to defend itself against an aggressor stupefies me.

And the tangled web of lies and deception are beginning to unravel. Prigozhin has not only turned on him, but is exposing the deceptions as he convulses. The senseless, unjustified war against Ukraine is doomed. The people of Russia are going to realize that Putin and his Oligarchs ruled to line their own pockets....even at the expense of not providing their own military with proper, life saving equipment.

Those in the West who made excuses for Putin and the " special military action" have some reflection to do. Those in the media who helped perpetuate the genius of Putin should be ashamed.

This is an historic moment, but a quite unstable moment. We should pray that the situation doesn't turn maniacal.

Glory to Ukraine and Glory to the resolve of NATO.

( thank you for your kind compliment Orthodox Catholic...coming from a person of your standing, makes it all the more special to me)