www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology TOWARDS A COMMON DATE OF EASTER: REMAINING FAITHFUL TO NICAEA

The western church must agree the resurrection of Jesus
Falls after the Passover and the full moon our chapel held
The resurrection of Jesus on the same date as the Eastern Orthodox Church
Because we know it is the correct date the Church of Rome and all Protestant churches have held the resurrection feast. Before or during the Jewish holiday of.
Passover and we know that is wrong it has to be after the full moon after the Passover holiday and the spring exioinox if I am not mistaken must come first before celebration christs resurrection feast

Read the article linked in Re: Calendar-Easter.

"Hands Off Easter! [crisismagazine.com] There's a movement afoot to fix a common date for Easter by 2025. It's a movement fraught with problems."

This is an interesting and refreshingly candid appraisal from a Catholic perspective (he has some minor technical details, however, that aren't quite right). As I lamented earlier:
Post #421473 (09/11/21)

More recently I wrote about relieving Catholics of any appearance of leadership or responsibility and an example for achieving unity above all else.

Here is another analysis,Universal Date for Easter (Pascha): Worthwhile Innovation in the Annals of Christianity? [academia.edu], also from a Catholic perspective: Fr. Christiann Kappes is (2015-present) Academic Dean and Professor of Philosophy and Theology, SS. Cyril and Methodius Byzantine Catholic Seminary, Pittsburgh, PA .

I recommend to all a remarkable book: The Ordering of Time : From the Ancient Computus to the Modern Computer [German original: ZEIT UND ZAHL IN DER GESCHICHTE EUROPAS (TIME AND NUMBERS IN EUROPE'S HISTORY) ] by Arno Borst. Internt Archive: The ordering of time [archive.org]

Also a followup webinar, a CEMES Open Public Lecture on the common celebration of Pascha :ON THE WAY TOWARD THE 1700TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE 1ST ECUMENICAL COUNCIL [youtube.com]

I also recommend Easter, Why Are You Like This? On the Timing, Name, and Symbols of Easter [academia.edu]. K R Harriman. Published 2020. This is the best primer (with minor caveats I have of nuance and interpretation) I've encountered that objectively covers the date and observance of Easter -- general but thorough. It gives the big picture quite well in 40 very readable pages, 26 concerned with "why Easter is celebrated when it is," the remainder with "how Easter got its name in English and how this name compares with its name around the world" and "why Easter has certain symbols attached to it, such as the rabbit/hare and the egg" (quotes from page 1).

I found the article to be good too, though I have a few reservations. For example, he seems to think that the Audians were Quartodecimans, when in fact they were Protopaschites.

Christ is in our midst!!

I have followed the threads about establishing a new, common date for Pascha and have a recurring question that seems, IMHO, not to be addressed.

It seems to me that the discussion is being done between the Catholic and other Apostolic Churches. Am I correct here?

Has anyone of those studying this topic considered the thousands on thousands of ecclesial communities that do not fit this definition? Currently many of our mainline Protestant communities are splitting over the issues of marriage, sexuality, ordination of non-conforming clergy, and what the Faith is about these issues, as well as what authority to point to on these issues.

The word authority should raise further questions. Many of these communities do not recognize authority outside their particular ecclesial organization, and even have broken up over that issue. Then there are the independent communities that look no further than themselves.

How will a common date of Pascha come out of all this? We can discuss this academically until the Second Coming, but the reality is that the kind of unanimity needed for putting this into practice seems to me to be almost out of reach.

Am I missing something?

Bob

I was not acquainted with the Audians. Wikipedia's Audianism [en.wikipedia.org] has them as Quartodecimans but then isn't sure at the end under Academic knowledge [en.wikipedia.org]

The need for calendar reform is solely in the East but the solution is an East-West endeavor. The EP is leading the way but the WCC is a concerned and active participant as is the Catholic Church.


Some communities I presume could care less or may consider a liturgical year an aberration. The only way forward is for those who can agree to do so, even for the Orthodox at the risk of schism. If adherence to Nicaea and Scripture is necessary, as the EP and others profess, is there not then a moral obligation for them to adhere, even if a church like the Russion Orthodox simply refuses?


Going back to my OP, the mandate proposed by the EP's Met. Job was to "educate." What's been done, what is the progress? That's the motivation for the academics but you are right, where is it in the mind and heart of the faithful and the church leaders? In previous posts I've linked two webinars from the CEMES [cemes-en.weebly.com] (CENTER OF ECUMENICAL, MISSIOLOGICAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES) but who and how many are they reaching? Met. Job clearly states the problem and Emer. Prof. Petros Vassiliadis speaks pointedly and passionately about the needed solution. Both of them, as does the WCC's Aleppo Statement, advance the Orthodox solution, and as I've said, it is a noble even heroic effort that I myself endorsed; I am now convinced, however, that it -- using detailed astronomical calculations of the full moon -- is NOT the proper remedy for the churches. There is also OLC XXVI (Orientale Lumen Foundation [olfoundation.net]) and it's proceeding Easter Together: An Ecumenical Exploration for a Common Date [ecpubs.com]. Are here other current efforts on the pursuit of a common date?

I enjoyed A perfect lunisolar calendar [academia.edu]. Is the first day of the lunar month the day after the mean conjunction, as in the Gregorian calendar? And will this approach allow Easter on March 21st?

Thanks.

Initially using Eqn. (1), Luna1 is the mean conjunction on the same day as the equinox (E) and gives Table on p 22, with some L14-E<0 values. This is adjusted to get the desired L14-E≥0, i.e. the 14th of the moon on or after the equinox, Table on p23. This is still for the mean conjunction as L1. I'm working on the best way to model L1 to match the observable moon. What is the correct offset and how is it introduced? This is a section not in the paper as I was and am still working on it, in particular that I'm not introducing improper adjustments or offsets. Here is the needed section 7 addition, p25, that addresses that adjustment; I'm still checking it out:


7. Comparison for Easter, Pascha

i. Kalendar adjustment for first observed crescent vs conjunction

This offset must be incorporated directly into Eqn. (1) since that equation determines the moon of Aviv as being the first observed moon whose 14th day is on or immediately after the equinox. Consequently, the observed offset dobs (days) must be added to Eqn. (1) giving

Y_f = ( L m+ dobs ) / s , L=1, 2, 3…n; ( Y, L: ∈ ℤ+ )

Though not optimized, the value of dobs = 1.366 days was determined by several trials to give the best match to the JPL values for Easter.

ii. Kalendar, JPL DE440, Gregorian Comparison

For the 1100 years 1550-2649, in determining the date of Easter:
JPL and Gregorian agree 997 / 1100 (103 different)
JPL and Kalendar agree 1051 / 1100 (49 different)

                                  Agree            Total
                                                   ____________
                    K&J&G:   985        985     89.55 %
Additionally:
                         K&J:     66        1051    95.55 %
                        J&G:      12          997    90.64 %
                        G&K:      34       1019    92.64 %


Yes, it does. This is in part because the Gregorian Paschalion is predicated on a fixed March 21 equinox which is not the case. This is also seen in the JPL results against which the Kalendar is calibrated. Here is an instance where they show this happening in the past:

JPL

1666 MAR 20 10:50:23.629494 SAT VERNAL 2329632.95213906420395
1666 MAR 20 20:13:50.916859 SAT FULL MOON 2329633.34342711232603
1666-MAR-21 SUN PASCHA

So it's the chosen calendar to which the Kalendar is synchronized that moves because of its leap-year rule rather than the continuous adjustment of Kalendar. Also the Gregorian Calendar's leap year rule and its ratio's mismatch (p18) can move it's March 21 enough off the "true" value dictated by the mean values of the synodic month and vernal equinox year of the Kalendar. Here are the Easter before March 22, AD years predicted by Kalendar until the first MAR-20 Easter in 4585:
   83-03-21 SUN
  455-03-21 SUN
1294-03-21 SUN
1666-03-21 SUN
2038-03-21 SUN
2877-03-21 SUN
3097-03-21 SUN
3249-03-21 SUN
3469-03-21 SUN
3621-03-21 SUN
3784-03-21 SUN
3841-03-21 SUN
4088-03-21 SUN
4156-03-21 SUN
4213-03-21 SUN
4460-03-21 SUN
4528-03-21 SUN
4585-03-20 SUN
Of the two years within the JPL's range, 1666 agrees with Kalendar but for 2038, JPL's Easter is a week later on 03-28, and for the Gregorian Paschalion it is 04-25. Of course Kalendar is based on constant values for the vernal equinox year and synodic month, here determined from the JPL data 1550-2649 which can change over time. Kalendar does not know named months of some number of days; it counts events continuously by days, just like the Julian Date convention Julian Date [aa.usno.navy.mil].

I reiterate:


Regarding this intricate and long-lasting, yet very concrete issue --The Calendar -- it looks like 2025 will be another missed opportunity. The status quo is a disgrace that we Christians have de facto accepted. There is no recent, new discussion of the topic among the decision makers. What is needed is not just discussion but real, productive debate. I dread the prospect of a convenient, feel-good, expedient, poorly informed decision. Some are pointing out the issues, asking the needed questions, raising the concerns:

The Harvest Moon Is Christian [catholic.com]
Scripture and Celestial Mechanics: ...le Date for Celebrating the Resurrection [adoremus.org]
Hands Off Easter! [crisismagazine.com]
A “Common” Easter [thecatholicthing.org]
On Rome’s Push for a ‘Common’ Date for Easter [newoxfordreview.org]
Towards a Common Date for Easter? [wherepeteris.com]

Who is listening? What is being done?

Consider this from 2009-2013 as an example of worthwhile talk but ask what was the result, where's the progress?


Ukrainian Catholic University Organizes Seminar on Easter Date

Last Updated: 19 February 2013

19.05.2009, [12:51] // Conference //

On 15 May 2009 the international seminar “A Common Date of Easter – Possible: The 1997 Aleppo Consensus” was held at the Ukrainian Catholic University (UCU) in Lviv. The participants considered the recommendations of the meeting in Syria concerning a common date of Easter to be acceptable for all Christian churches of both the East and West today.

At the same time, the speakers accented on the fact that the main problem lies not in deciding the calculations but in the lack of trust between the different Christian denominations due to long division.
The aim of the seminar, as the organizers mentioned, was to inform the broader public and to discuss “the good news concerning the consensus which Christian churches at Aleppo have achieved for the common celebration of Christ’s resurrection,” At the same time, it intends to raise the level of trust between Christian confessions.

According to the words of the organizer of the seminar, the director of UCU’s Institute of Ecumenical Studies, Dr. Antoine Arjakovsky, the seminar in Lviv is the first such meeting of this character after the consultation in Aleppo. He stressed that it was very important that the representatives of all of the confessions which participated in the seminar and also representatives of the World Council of Churches and Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity reach an agreement concerning the proposals of Aleppo that they are the most acceptable for having one date of Easter.

In the 20th century, Roman Catholic and Protestant churches of the West were even ready to accept a fixed date of Easter on the second Sunday of April, presuming that such a proposal were to find agreement among all Christian churches. Responding to this, a commission from the Orthodox churches, which was formed with the intention of giving such a response to this proposal, declined the idea of a fixed date of Easter after the proposal was given at a consultation in 1977 in Chambesy. This decline on behalf of the Orthodox commission came due to the fact that it would be in contradiction with the ancient method of calculating the date of Easter. All of the members expressed their desire to calculate the feast of the resurrection according to the rules of the Nicene Council that mandates that Easter is to be celebrated on the first Sunday after the full moon following the vernal equinox in accord with modern, astronomical data.

Responding to this, the World Council of Churches and the Middle East Council of Churches, by the invitation of the Syrian Orthodox Church, organized the 1997 Aleppo consultation where the theologians of all of the represented churches accepted the decision of the Orthodox conference and decided that the most acceptable and traditionally rooted method of calculating the date for the celebration of Easter would be following the norms of the Nicene Council and that the celebration of Easter would take place on the first Sunday after the full-moon following the vernal equinox using the calculations of modern, astronomical data. The consultation also recommended that the calculation be made on the basis of the Jerusalem meridian.

Dr. Antoine Arjakovsky emphasized that it is an important fact that these proposals of the seminar were supported by the major Christian churches of Lviv. During the meeting, formal remarks from Metropolitan Andriy (Horak) of the Lviv-Sokal Metropolitanate of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarchate; Archbishop Makary Miletich of the Lviv Archeparchy of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church; Archbishop Ihor Vozniak of Lviv of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church; Rev. Dymytro Kolesnyk, pastor of Hosanna Church and director of the Youth Christian Association of Lviv; Rev. Roman Solovij, representative of the Evangelical Churches of Ukraine, and rector of the Lviv Theological Seminary; Rev. Mikhailo Mokienko, a representative of the Evangelical Churches of Ukraine and dean of the Dnipropetrovsk Bible College; and the administrator of the Armenian Cathedral in Lviv, Father Tadeos Gevorgian.

Expressing joy that such an important theme had been raised in the seminar, Metropolitan Andriy Horak mentioned that such a detailed answer from the Orthodox representation concerning the Aleppo proposals could be received only after a Pan-Orthodox consultation and, eventually, a council. It is worth mentioning that Fr. Milan Zust, S.J., representative for the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, said that the Roman Catholic Church is waiting for a response from the Orthodox churches and he thinks that if the Orthodox would accept the Aleppo recommendations, then there would be no problems with establishing one, common date of Easter. If some remarks would come from the Orthodox representation or if they were to propose another variant, then the question would definitely need to be reviewed.

Dr. Konstantine Sigov, chief director of the publishing firm Spirit and Letter, who spoke in the name of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate), mentioned that it is of huge importance to spread information about the possibility of establishing a common date for Easter – especially within an academic environment as well as among the broader public.

As it was declared in the seminar in Lviv, the participants declared the task before themselves to “gain the attention of all Christians to the difficult question of the division in celebrating the feast above all feasts, the solemn day of Easter, and to inform with invigorated power, concerning the consensus and the progress which has already been attained by Christians with regard to this issue.”
Expressing his point of view concerning this issue, which was explored within the seminar, UCU Vice Rector Myroslav Marynovych mentioned that cultural barriers are the main obstacle. “When we think about one date of celebrating Easter for Christians, we think first of all, who wins or who loses,” mentioned Marynovych. He gave an example as experienced within the forced labor camps of the Soviet Union saying that all Christian feasts were celebrated together and Easter was celebrated twice. According to his words, people are united primarily by an animosity against a common enemy. “Why is it today that we do not have a sentiment that the best ‘glue’ is not a common enemy, but is rather a common God.” He placed this as a rhetorical question to the participants.

In 2010 and 2011, the dates of Easter will coincide in both the Eastern and Western traditions. As mentioned by Dr. Arjakovsky, we need to place an accent on the fact that the dates for celebrating Easter not only coincide according to the Julian and Gregorian calendars, but also with astronomical data. “This is an important witness that the time has come to celebrate Easter jointly not only from time to time, but as a rule ,” mentioned Dr. Arjakovsky.

The participants of the seminar, as the final communique stated, encouraged all Christians to actively join in discussion concerning this issue and to put all of their efforts to make the coinciding of the celebration of Easter by Christians to be not merely an exception, but a rule. It is the hope that the Christian churches of both the East and the West will jointly celebrate the feast of Easter and this would constitute a real step toward establishing full communion in the future.

During the course of my (scientific) career I have noted that a requirement for getting the right answer to a problem is asking the right questions. What is the right question for the dating of Easter?

Some considerations.

A very good website for all kinds of information on a variety of calendars is timeanddate [timeanddate.com].

Its page on Calculating the Easter Date [timeanddate.com] says:
So, the key is the full moon after March 21 based on "direct astronomical observation" and not one "based on mathematical calculations," that is, not one using "an equation-based method of calculating Easter."

This is, unintentionally, wrong and misleading. The traditional -- true, accurate, precise -- specification of Easter/Pascha, presently ascribed to by Orthodox and Catholic, does not invoke the full moon but, based on scripture as the accepted only legitimate directive, the 14th day of the observed moon of the synodic (lunar) cycle. Also, there is no "direct astronomical observation" of future events by either the traditional method or the modern detailed astronomical determinations. Both are calculations based on models of varying degrees of sophistication that are properly matched to the actual requirement, a "management-by-objective" approach. To arrive on time for a meeting do you need to use an hour-glass, a standard (hour-minute) watch or an atomic clock?

Here is a typical comment I pulled off a website, a man-on-the-street observation: "Note that both East and West use a table for the lunar observation, too, rather than astronomical observation. The Western one is more accurate but also wrong."

Once again, "table" vs. "astronomical observation." And in what way, is the table of the West "wrong"? This is echoed in another page on timeanddate, see Is There A Perfect Calendar? [timeanddate.com]: The term "perfect" is misused in referring to a calendar. Given the explicit, historical and practical development of the calendar to meet a specific human need for convenient and useful timing, it is understood to be a grid of some number of uniform days representing recurring orientations of the earth, sun and moon. It is then judged by a standard that is impossible to satisfy by its given nature. Traditional solar calendars have a given number of days that vary to match the sun-earth orientations by applying a leap year rule. Given constant values for the year and lunar month, a rule-based calendar will eventually build up a residual, eventually accumulating too much residual that is then considered an error.

How much residual (mismatch in calendar date vs what the sun-earth-moon are actually doing) is too much? And the given values for year and month change, so secular (very long-term) predictions and comparisons -- My calendar is accurate for a million years, yours is only good for 2500 years.-- are just hubris. Or consider that the 24-hour atomic clock, relative to how the earth is actually rotating, is "wrong" excepting four times a year; see Equation of time [en.wikipedia.org], the four times the curve crosses the x-axis=0.

From the recently concluded Synod on Synodality: Synod23 – Summary Report of the first Session of the XVI Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops (4-29 October
2023), p 18.
[ From (official Italian?) “A Synodal Church in Mission,” the 42-page summary report [Italian] [catholicnewsagency.com]; provide here Google translate English version pdf unedited, as is.]