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Christ is Born!! Today the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith put out another defense of the new document on Blessings that we have been discussing. There is a significant statement that I have copied and posted below. In other words, a bishop cannot forbit his priests from doing these "blessings." I thought that the Catholic Church taught that the pope teaches in communion and in collaboration with the bishops of the world. This seems to undermine that idea and makes it seem as if the pope is the only bishop and teacher in the Church. If Pope Francis can undermine the local bishop, what good is it to have a local bishop? Sounds like the pope is pushing for some kind of clash with the world's bishops that would become a real crisis. Each local Bishop, by virtue of his own ministry, always has the power of discernment in loco, that is, in that concrete place that he knows better than others precisely because it is his own flock. Prudence and attention to the ecclesial context and to the local culture could allow for different methods of application, but not a total or definitive denial of this path that is proposed to priests.
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Christ is Born!! Today the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith put out another defense of the new document on Blessings that we have been discussing. There is a significant statement that I have copied and posted below. In other words, a bishop cannot forbit his priests from doing these "blessings." I thought that the Catholic Church taught that the pope teaches in communion and in collaboration with the bishops of the world. This seems to undermine that idea and makes it seem as if the pope is the only bishop and teacher in the Church. If Pope Francis can undermine the local bishop, what good is it to have a local bishop? Sounds like the pope is pushing for some kind of clash with the world's bishops that would become a real crisis. Each local Bishop, by virtue of his own ministry, always has the power of discernment in loco, that is, in that concrete place that he knows better than others precisely because it is his own flock. Prudence and attention to the ecclesial context and to the local culture could allow for different methods of application, but not a total or definitive denial of this path that is proposed to priests. Oy vey ist mir!! (Yes, I'm a convert from Judaism) Earlier, Bob, you referred to the book "Persecuted From Within". While I was looking at it on Amazon I saw another that, in light of all that's been happening recently (and not so recently) with our dear pontiff, seems more than appropriately titled as "The Dictator Pope" by Marcantonio Colonna (aka Henry Sire). Going on the title alone it seems like it might be worth a read. More and more I sigh and shake my head at the words and actions of Pope Francis. My wife, who has unfortunately left the Church, commented on the day he was elected to the papacy that nothing good would come of this.
Last edited by J Michael; 01/04/24 04:13 PM.
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J Michael,
If you want "The Dictator Pope," don't buy it. I already have it; have read it, and will send it to you. I have yet to read "Persecuted From Within." This latter has a review in which the author outlines when it is okay to disobey one's bishop--and from extension this pope.
Bob
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ajk,
I started to read the full document but stopped at the passage I posted. I figured the rest was not worth my time since its logic, as with the original document is so tortured as to be a joke.
Bob
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J Michael,
If you want "The Dictator Pope," don't buy it. I already have it; have read it, and will send it to you.
Bob Wow, many thanks for that, Bob! Your offer is very much appreciated! It turns out that I can get it from the library on an inter-library loan, so I'll do that first, and save you the hassle and cost of mailing it. Thanks again!! Jeff
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Jeff,
I bought mine on Amazon and when I got it, I found some kind of library stamp in it. Apparently the seller borrowed it and then sold it rather than return it. What a world!!
On another note, I will be buying my children a copy of "The Catechism of the Catholic Church" before Pope Francis orders revisions according to his innovations.
Bob
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Jeff,
On another note, I will be buying my children a copy of "The Catechism of the Catholic Church" before Pope Francis orders revisions according to his innovations.
Bob Good thinkin'!
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You mean the Ruthenian bishops (thank GOD! I left that mess!) who authorized the "Teal Terror" and changed the wording of the Creed? THOSE bishops???
I would be shocked if they made any protest against this at all! Well, get ready to be shocked because Eparch Kurt Burnette of the Eparchy of Passaic has issued his reflection and guidelines on Fiducia supplicans: link. [ reddit.com] In short, FS does NOT apply. Well, guess what? Neither Bishop Kurt, nor any other Catholic bishop, is allowed denial or dissent: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...aily-usa-2024-01-05&utm_medium=email
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Fiducia Supplicans section 31 reads clearly that:
"Within the horizon outlined here is the possibility of blessings of couples in irregular situations and of same-sex couples..." "...here is the possibility..." The possibility? Is this the Magisterium or a speculative theologian addressing this issue? But more. My mind has been refusing to understand the obvious, that Pope Francis and his like-minded Card. Fernández, now finally established as doctrinal Prefect, actually want and require at least the pinch of incense, and "not a total or definitive denial of this path that is proposed to priests." The path, what they want, is the blessing of same-sex couples but it's just a "proposal," but it must not be denied: "... a proposal for short and simple pastoral blessings (neither liturgical nor ritualised) of couples in irregular situations (but not of their unions)." A blessing of the couple but not their union? An oxymoron is to become a new and innovative doctrine of blessings? If not doctrine (yet) then certainly praxis. The answer of the clergy, in particular bishops, and the faithful to the "proposal" must be, NO.The answer must be the "total or definitive denial of this path." It must be that the Church does NOT BLESS same-sex "couples" for any reason, at any time or place, whatsoever.
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ajk,
Thank you, again, for your sharp analysis of this confusing language and its consequences.
I think that Pope Francis is running up against "the sense of the Faithful" and he is finding that he has stumbled. He appears to be too arrogant to admit his mistake and has doubled down with his hand-picked doctrinal chief. It's interesting to me that he has done away with a solid Catholic head for the Dicastery of the Doctrine of the Faith and imported his own "yes man" to fill that slot.
There is a book out that I never thought I'd see written that posits that one can, in certain circumstances, disobey one's bishop--and I would imagine that means the Bishop of Rome, too.
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You mean the Ruthenian bishops (thank GOD! I left that mess!) who authorized the "Teal Terror" and changed the wording of the Creed? THOSE bishops???
I would be shocked if they made any protest against this at all! Well, get ready to be shocked because Eparch Kurt Burnette of the Eparchy of Passaic has issued his reflection and guidelines on Fiducia supplicans: link. [ reddit.com] In short, FS does NOT apply. Well, guess what? Neither Bishop Kurt, nor any other Catholic bishop, is allowed denial or dissent: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...aily-usa-2024-01-05&utm_medium=emailSomeone correct me if I'm wrong, but if something doesn't apply, then denial or dissent is not necessary; in fact it's irrelevant.
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J Michael,
It's a question one might ask if this applies to the Ruthenian bishops. The head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church has stated emphatically that it does not apply to his sui juris Church and also suggested that it does not apply to any Eastern Catholic Church. He cited the Code of Canons for the Eastern Churches.
Meanwhile, Pope Benedict's secretary has been summoned for a private audience with Pope Francis after he publicly stated that Pope Benedict would never have made the sort of statement that this teaching makes. We'll see if he is silenced or gets the Strickland treatment.
This saga goes on day to day.
I don't think either Pope Francis or his new doctrinal chief know what the function of the Holy See is. Years ago when he said "Who am I to judge?" it struck me that I knew the answer to that even he didn't. He's the man responsible for keeping the Deposit of the Faith from innovations that contradict what has been taught in all ages and all places. The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith is supposed to be the place that evaluates any innovations to see if they are in line with that same Deposit. But these two seem to have turned that upside down and persecuted al those who are calling them out over it.
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