|
1 members (EastCatholic),
1,707
guests, and
98
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,508
Posts417,509
Members6,161
| |
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 35 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 35 Likes: 3 |
You are correct because Mukachevo only came with Uzhhorod, not the Union of Brest. I was only thinking about the American situation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 10 Likes: 2
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 10 Likes: 2 |
I'm Greek Orthodox by baptism.
I have attended a UGCC church for a few years and attended a Byzantjne Catholic church and gone to youth retreats, pilgrimages, etc, for a couple years.
My experience is that the BCC and their people are less latinized and more zealously eastern (I e. No filioque, etc.). My experience is that the BCC is more patristic and traditionally eastern than Greek Orthodox which I found to be pretty modernized and liberal here in the USA (Elder Ephraim's athonite style monasteries excepted of course).
Also, around here (pacific northwest) all the BCC churches were founded by one man who is ultra zealous and eastern minded, which could be a contributing factor.
Reuben
|
|
1 member likes this:
OEFNavyVet |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 26 Likes: 8
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 26 Likes: 8 |
Seems like more people need to be updated regarding the Eastern Catholic Churches. The Italian version of the Wikipedia page for Eastern Catholic Churches [ it.wikipedia.org] no longer lists the Albanian Greek Catholic Church as " sui iuris". I am guessing the sole Byzantine-Rite Parish in Elbasan is now on a similar status as that of the Byzantine-Slavic-Rite Parish of Kostomloty in Poland. Interestingly however, the Byzantine-Rite Apostolic Administration of Kazakhstan and Central Asia is now considered its own Church sui iuris after previously being assigned under the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church. The GCatholic website had also taken these [ gcatholic.org] into account already.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,392 Likes: 32
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,392 Likes: 32 |
Also, around here (pacific northwest) all the BCC churches were founded by one man who is ultra zealous and eastern minded, which could be a contributing factor. Who is the man?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 45 Likes: 9
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 45 Likes: 9 |
How about just starting with a unified Byzantine Catholic hierarchy in the USA?
|
|
1 member likes this:
JustinWJ |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 26 Likes: 8
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 26 Likes: 8 |
I came upon an old article from a now defunct website: https://web.archive.org/web/20170812154248/http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1351368bdc4.html?eng=y
It's a bit tabloidish but it does bring up an interesting plan which sort of failed given the events since then. Apparently, there was an attempt to create a Metropolitan Church sui iuris in Italy for all Byzantine-Rite Catholics. It was rejected because of ethnic tensions. Even before, there is the tension between the Italo-Greeks of Grottaferrata Monastery and the Italo-Albanian Eparchies. If the plan came to fruition, they feared their identities being diluted among the more recent Byzantine-Rite immigrants. Meanwhile, the diaspora Byzantine-Rite Catholics prefer remaining connected with their mother churches. This is apparently the case with Byzantine-Rite Ukrainians who now have their own Apostolic Exarchate. There was the name change from Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (Chiesa Cattolica Italo-Albanese) to Byzantine Catholic Church in Italy (Chiesa Bizantina Cattolica in Italia) in the Annuario Pontificio so the claim of the article does appear sound.
Given the failure of the plan, I wonder if Italo-Greeks and Italo-Albanians should simply be separated and attached to their respective "mother" church sui iuris. Of course, the jurisdictions should remain being treated as within canonical territory rather than being treated as being in diaspora.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 7
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 7 |
If I'm not mistaken that man sounds like Hegumen Joseph Stanichar of the Duchovny Dom Monastery. I know he has done much work and church planting throughout the PNW.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 8
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 8 |
You're correct, EasternChristian. That would have been Hegumen Fr Joe Stanichar. He Chrismated my siblings and I about 16 years ago at the Mt Vernon WA outreach divine liturgy. He did indeed find and plant most of the Ruthenian Byzantine parishes around Washington and Oregon, including St John's in Seattle, and Cyril and Methodius in Spokane.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 77 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 77 Likes: 1 |
I disagree on being functionally the same. We tried being in the same jurisdiction before. It was not a good situation for either side. Ukrainians are generally too ethnically tied to being Ukrainian or at least they are ethnically more homogeneous, whereas in the BCC, the ethnicity is more superficial and has a longer history of being multi-ethnic. Initially we were Rusyn, Hungarian, Croatian (Catholic Serbs), Slovak, and even arguably Romanian. At this point, the BCC is not really that culturally close to the average Ukrainian parish, especially the further West in the US you go. We have blacks, Hispanics, Anglo/Irish/German-Americans, and the Rusyn identity is basically pyrohies, holubkies, and a smattering of Church Slavonic and paraliturgical folk hymns.
Historically the Ruthenian Church has never been ecclesiastically aligned, under, or with the Ukrainian GCC/Kyivan Church, or at least not since the 13th Century, being directly under Constantinople, then Serbia until Union of Uzhhorod. Historically, Rusyns had closer ties to the Romanians (Wallachia) and the Serbs than Galicians, even though the two groups are culturally very similar (but not the same, and it is like saying the Moscovites and Ukrainians are the same).
The reality is, for us to be assumed into another Church either makes no sense, or it makes as much difference to go Melkite or Romanian as it does Ukrainian. All three are more ethnically homogeneous, and have the same pluses and minuses. The biggest one, in my experience, is language (even among Melkites who cannot get along if you don't speak the right kind of Arabic). And when there is English, are different translations, different music and even different ways of how the services are celebrated (even between the Ruthenians and the Ukrainians, who are not close enough in this regard to keep from stumbling when going from one to the other). I speak from my experience-our community has Melkite and Ruthenian services, and we have folks from the UGCC, Melkite, BCC and Romanian GCC in our mission. How do you feel about the cultural and liturgical differences between the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and the Byzantine Catholic Church, especially considering the challenges you've mentioned from your past experience of being in the same jurisdiction?
|
|
|
|
|
