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Blessed Pentecost!
I am having a dialogue with a friend. And we can't seem to find out whether Christ has one or two substances. The Wikipedia page for diophysitysm says that He has one substance. I can't find anywhere that says He has two.
Appreciate the help!
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Blessed Pentecost!
I am having a dialogue with a friend. And we can't seem to find out whether Christ has one or two substances. The Wikipedia page for diophysitysm says that He has one substance. I can't find anywhere that says He has two.
Appreciate the help! I would take the theology of Zizioulas to its logical end and prioritize Person/Persona/Hyposthesis over Being/Substantia/Ousia as a necessary result of Christian, Trinitarian theology. See Did the Son (Jesus) become a human being?. From Chaldedon: We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential](ὁμοούσιον) with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial (ὁμοούσιον)with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως), inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεόν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us. Thus, with this construct, Jesus in a divine person (prosopon/hypostasis) who is "acknowledged in two natures," as He is same-ousion with Father (divinity) and same-ousion with us (humanity). With substance = Latin West's substantia = Greek East's ousia as in consubstantial (ὁμο ούσιον) above, count the ούσιον: 1. consubstantial [co-essential](ὁμο ούσιον) with the Father according to the Godhead, 2. consubstantial (ὁμο ούσιον)with us according to the Manhood See also Chalcedonian Creed.
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Catholic, Eastern Orthodox (in communion with Constantinople) and most magisterial Protestant communions hold Christ has two substances (natures/essences/beings), one human and one divine substance that is of the same substance of Father and Holy Spirit. These two substances are present in the one Person(hypostasis) of Jesus Christ without mixture, confusion, separation, or division. While I (and the above Christian groups) would argue this doctrine is as least implicit (some would argue explicit as well) in the Bible and saints' writing/creeds/councils of the early Church, you can find this teaching most explicit in the Council of Chalcedon. St. John of Damacus in his Exposition of the Orthodox Faith covers this concept in detail as well.
Can I assume your friend is what we would call "Oriental Orthodox"?
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Substance and Nature aren't exactly the same afaik. He is Anglican, and we were talking about Transubstantiation. I wanted to make sure I wasn't a heretic before I made the argument I wanted to make, that being, If God came down from heaven under one substance, and the Eucharist is an extension of the Incarnation, then the Eucharist has just one substance. Again, the Dyophysitism Wikipedia article says one substance, two natures, two persons. etc. I can't find this anywhere else though..
I assume the Wiki must be changed and I need better, orthodox arguments.
Last edited by JohnFromRuthenia; 05/20/24 06:21 PM.
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Again, the Dyophysitism Wikipedia article says one substance, two natures, two persons. etc. I can't find this anywhere else though. Not "two persons" though: ... the Christological position that Jesus Christ is one person... united in the one person and hypostasis of Jesus Christ... "If anyone shall divide between two persons ... let him be anathema." ... in one person (prosopon) and one hypostasis... [ en.wikipedia.org] ... we were talking about Transubstantiation. I wanted to make sure I wasn't a heretic before I made the argument I wanted to make, that being, If God came down from heaven under one substance, and the Eucharist is an extension of the Incarnation, then the Eucharist has just one substance. From the Council of Trent: CHAPTER I
THE REAL PRESENCE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST IN THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST
First of all, the holy council teaches and openly and plainly professes that after the consecration of bread and wine, our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and true man, is truly, really and substantially contained in the august sacrament of the Holy Eucharist under the appearance of those sensible things.
CHAPTER IV
TRANSUBSTANTIATION
But since Christ our Redeemer declared that to be truly His own body which He offered under the form of bread,[20] it has, therefore, always been a firm belief in the Church of God, and this holy council now declares it anew, that by the consecration of the bread and wine a change is brought about of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of His blood.[21] This change the holy Catholic Church properly and appropriately calls transubstantiation. [emphasis added] Thirteenth Session of the Council of Trent [ ewtn.com] The Eucharist is the Christ of Chalcedon, the Person Who is true God and true man, no less and no more (bread). The bread and wine are changed into that which is consubstantial (ὁμο ούσιον)with us according to the Manhood (Chalcedon) but the Person (ἓν πρόσωπον καὶ μίαν ὑπόστασιν) of Christ is present (Θεὸν ἀληθῶς, καὶ ἄνθρωπον ἀληθῶς,) true God and true man (also Chalcedon). In the Presanctified Liturgy we receive the whole Christ, body, blood, soul and divinity, the Person, in the bread alone.
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[quote=JohnFromRuthenia]
Not "two persons" though
. My bad. I also see that the Wikipedia doesn't say that anymore, neither can I find it anywhere on the internet now. hmmm. Thank youz very much!
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Blessed Pentecost!
I am having a dialogue with a friend. And we can't seem to find out whether Christ has one or two substances. The Wikipedia page for diophysitysm says that He has one substance. I can't find anywhere that says He has two.
Appreciate the help! Isn't monophysitism the belief that Christ has two natures, both divine and human? Could you clarify if this means He has one or two substances based on that belief?
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Christ is in our midst!!
Christ is one Person with two natures: Divine and human. Each is distinct; each has its own will. Monophysitism believes that Christ has only a Divine nature and will: in other words, God hiding in human form.
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