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Forgive the ignorance of my following questions dear ones. I am a traditional Roman Catholic who absolutely loves the Divine Liturgy. I live in East Central PA, so am blessed to live near many Eastern Catholic churches. I frequently attend both Ukrainian and Ruthenian Liturgies. I have noticed some differences. Can anyone explain them to me? For instance, more kneeling in the Ukrainian church (virtually none in the Ruthenian). Praying the Holy Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy also seem more common in the Ukrainian churches. (Again, this is simply my observation). I understand that the Ukrainian church came to union with Rome before the Ruthenians. I would never use the word "better", but is one Liturgy more traditional than the other? Or perhaps the differences I am seeing are matters of individual parishes? Thank you and may God bless you all my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Christ is in our midst!!

Waylon,

I am a Latin Catholic, too. I have been to the Divine Liturgy in many churches that use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. I think you will find--as I have--that variations come from many different reasons. I think you will find that even between parishes of the same eparchy there may be some variations. I have been to Russian and Greek Orthodox parishes and found slight variations. One priest may follow his service book and take every part. Another may skip over some things.

But the end is the same. One is swept into the eternal mystery of what Christ has done for us. He offers Himself to the believer in the form of His Body and Blood within the context of the liturgical re-presentation of His Once-Saving Sacrifice. We stand in awe each time we participate.

What are the key differences between Ukrainian and Ruthenian Divine Liturgies, and are these differences based on tradition or individual parish practices?

Considering first the OP:


Extra-liturgical (strictly speaking) practices can vary depending upon the Eparchy, bishop, priest, disposition of the people etc. As an example (my impression), US Ruthenian (BCC) clergy, influenced directly by the post VCII culture, and reacting against the preceding significant latinizations, might downplay or worse not allow the rosary. Younger priests now coming from Ukraine to the BCC, with a different cultural and ecclesial experience, have grown up praying the rosary as a popular devotion and are happy to continue doing so.


Liturgical practices inevitably vary to various degrees. Officially, the liturgical books researched and published by Rome (~1930s~1970s) called the Ruthenian Recension, are the books given to Ruthenian and Ukrainian (both called Ruthenian by Rome for liturgical not jurisdictional purposes) churches, as requested by them (~1930s) from Rome, as typical editions, which are in Church Slavonic. These are adapted, officially and otherwise, to meet actual circumstances. I am not familiar with official UGCC practices, but the present Liturgicon of the BCC is such an official adaptation and, being in English, a translation. Prior to it, the English version of the Chrysostom Divine Liturgy (The "Red Book" Liturgicon published in 1967) was also an official translation which, however, though needing relatively minor changes and corrections, was a complete translation of the official Slavonic edition. A very faithful English rendering of the Slavonic Liturgicon, though unofficial, is in (see note in red) Study Texts of Translations of the Liturgical Books of the Ruthenian Recension. A lot of commentary going back to 2005 tracing the ongoing development and promulgation of the present BCC's liturgicon (2007) is at The Revised Divine Liturgy .

Can you please tell me what are the key differences between Ukrainian and Ruthenian Divine Liturgies, especially regarding practices like kneeling and praying the Rosary? Are these differences traditional or parish-specific?

The chant used is different, but not completely so, between the Ruthenian and Ukrainian Churches. Kneeling and the Rosary tend more to vary by parish. The official rule is not kneeling on Sundays and from Pascha to Pentecost but since most people only attend Liturgy on Sunday many parishes will kneel on Sundays outside of Pascha. In other parishes you will some kneeling and some standing. Rosary is less popular in some places more in others. The Return of Vespers, Orthros and the Hours have had an effect on this.

Aren't the Rosary and Stations of the Cross Latinizations?

Christ is in our midst!!

Roman,

One of our esteemed members, Dr. Alex Roman, who posts as Orthodox Catholic, has written about this some time ago. If I remember correctly, he says that both devotions are popular in Ukraine and their use varies there as it does in this country.

IMHO, whatever brings a person closer to Christ, deepens his faith, and nourishes him in his pilgrimage out not to be labeled as Latin or Eastern, but just done as the needs of a parish or person warrant. I think the parallel thing of pushing for some sort of purity is a danger like that which I witnessed as Vatican 2 finished and changes swept our parishes. As some of our iconoclasts began to tell people that these practices were "old Church" and needed to be jettisoned, people began to feel that nothing was necessary. I remember meeting many people who had simply stopped doing everything, including regular liturgy attendance as a result. IMHO, meet people where they are and don't stomp on their faith or faith practices.

I'm a funeral director. I was present for six funeral arrangements where Grandma had stopped going to Mass, stopped her daily visit to church to pray, stopped all her religious practice at home, and thrown all her religious articles into the trash. Why? Because a young priest, newly ordained, had told her that she was just a "dumb old lady who isn't going to Heaven for all your pious practices because you don't know anything." And then the parish priest, years later refused to bury her because she hadn't made her Easter Duty. I shuddered each time I heard this in an arrangements conference. I'm not a priest, but IMHO one ought to meet people where they are before trying to change their long-standing practice.

"Woe to the one who makes on of these little ones of mine fall. It would be better for him to have a millstone tied around his neck and be cast into the sea." I always wondered the gentle mercy these elderly women received from Christ and what would happen to that young priest.

Amin et akios.

Very well stated.

Long, long ago I was a newly minted Seminary grad who had a narccisitic passion to "prove himself" at the expense of (and to the destruction of) the piety of those entrusted to my care..

Now decades older any just a tiny bit wiser I would trade the heart-knowledge and true Wisdom of the Yia-yias for the sophistry of the self proclaimed "scholars".

Forgive me , the sinner!

Here is an Orthodox perspective on praying the Rosary. I think the larger issue regarding Eastern Catholics is when Latin devotions replace traditional Eastern Liturgical Services (like Vespers, Matins, the Hours, etc., and even para-liturgical services like Molebens and Akathists). The Rosary and other devotions that come to us from the Latin Church can and are helpful in one's personal prayer life.

Waylon, the OP, did not say anything with respect to his personal attachment to the Rosary.

He *did* inquire as to what practices are traditional, etc.

I *did not* advise any eastern Catholics to stop praying the Rosary or to refrain from doing the Stations of the Cross.

Christ is in our midst!!

Roman,

I don't think anyone interpreted your response as being "advice." I certainly didn't. My response to your post was to bring up responses to Waylon's question made by a poster from the past. The rest of my post may have hit you the wrong way, and if it did, I apologize. There have been harsh responses to this query in the past. I thought by my additional experience to just add another perspective to the conversation.

"Aren't the Rosary and Stations of the Cross Latinizations?"
Yes, they are. And Alex, as much as I like him, is hardly an unbiased source. He is an active rosary promoter. I agree with the admin that the rosary and other Latin devotions should not replace genuine eastern devotions, especially the Hours. As long as those Latin devotions are kept as personal I see no harm in them.