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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 117
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Let me tell you the only thing about monastics that bothers me is it takes so long for the bishop to reconize the community in his Eparchy. I wish that it could be quicker but I understand that there is good reasons.I just spend so much time with the community that is right next to me that I want the best for them.Byzantine nuns are so cool.These nuns are very traditional and it shows in all that they do.Even though all they do is pray it is my hope that they can continue to do this for the rest of their lives smile

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Chad,

Do they have a home for the aged there, or a nursing home? One of the women form our church is going out there. She just loves it. Her name in Jeneen(sp) havn't heard that she has made the final move yet.

Rose

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Rose,
No the thing was that it was at one time a nursing home but the state got rid of it.Before that it was the summer mansion for the Governor of Wa.

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Dear Carpathian,

I'm sorry, you math doesn't add up.

How much of modern Catholicism would be recognizable to St.Pius V? Certainly not its ecumenism towards Orthodoxy, refusal to call us schismatics, or even cooperation with Orthodox Christians on simple charitable activities. We could not even pray the Our Father together.

Axios

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Dear Friends,

I'm wondering why we are so fascinated by the events connected with the Esphigmenou monks?

If their name means "squeezed," then they are certainly being squeezed.

So I'm wondering now not so much about their situation, but our own reasons for wanting to keep coming back to this subject?

Just wondering . . .

Alex

Joined: Feb 2002
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Alex: Some random thoughts since I am short on time.

I have only one legitimate reason (since I certainly do not believe church gossip legitimate) and that is based on the fact that I lived in Greece for over six years; come from a family that is Balkan potpourri (including Greeks); and I now know that I am more in need of Orthodoxy--especially the masculine Orthodoxy the monks represent-- than Orthodoxy is in need of me, if you catch my drift. In other words, I have met my betters and I am more than willing to learn from them since they have nothing to learn from me. (Protestantism is more spiritually wanting than I ever could have imagined.)

Also, I "need" the monks of Esphigmenou, because without them --and gutsy Christians like them--I would find being a Christian untenable.

For me, Hellenism and Orthodoxy are inseparable, which is why I can't trust Rome, though I hold individual Catholics in high esteem and admire their fortitude and strong moral stand on issues like abortion. Of course, this is an attitude I share with the fathers.

In 1821, the monks of Athos opened the republic to women and children to protect them from slaughter by the Turks. There were many more thousands of monks resident at Athos than there are today--a sign of the times--and many, many of them left the Holy Mountain to take up arms to liberate Greece from the Turks. As you can imagine, many of them lost their lives in the struggle.

Many Orthodox Christians remember the many contributions of the monks of Athos to universal Orthodoxy and certainly are sympathetic to the Athonite tradition, even in this--as Father Seraphim Rose would say--abnormal world.

In many ways--as anti-Catholic and anti-Protestant as the monks may be--for many Orthodox, they are the crown jewels of Orthodoxy, admired even by secularizied Greeks because of their fervent nationalism and contributions to Byzantine culture. (BTW:
Athos is a pan-Orthodox community with many non-Greeks resident in the various monasteries. But all share the Byzantine ethos.)

The Fathers of Athos--better than more modernistic and nominalistic Orthodox--have preserved the patristic and hesychistic traditions, even to the chagrin of more Western oriented Orthodox, the so-called progressives. This reality also makes Athos a holy place inaccessible and incomprehensible to the Catholic mindset, even the Byzantine Catholic mindset since the Athonite "ideology" and spirituality has been lost to Eastern Catholics under the influence of syncretism and heavy latinization. (There are exceptions, of course.)

(On the other hand, Eastern Catholics would respond that theirs is a spirituality of the third way, neither Latin or Greek, but unique to their history and other contingencies.)

(Certainly, Byzantine Catholics can sympathize with the monks on this issue since you are more than acquainted with the negative affect of progressivism and how it has watered down your practice of-- and identification with-- pure Orthodoxy: the pure Orthodoxy of the Byzantine saints you love to quote. But quoting isn't enough. I digress.)

For the members of this Forum, it problably is better that they ignore the events, since it is almost incomprehensible for them to understand, especially when one understands that Greeks and the Fathers of Athos have a concept of ecclesiatical obedience that in more "Evgenikos" than papal. Looking at the events through Catholic eyes will only confuse you. Move on, is my fraternal advice. smile

Abdur

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Axios,
My point is the Orthodox have held up much better against the winds of modernism, overall. I salute you. ( Like "Germania" by Tacitus, one can admire the foreign) Divorce and birth control being notable exceptions to Orthodoxy escaping modernism. Support of the above is not "filoque." Arian Visigoths threatened Latin Christianity, so the troubling word was added to protect the sheep from wolves in Cordoba.

If I were not a Catholic, I would be ROCOR. I would sooner be ROCOR than a modernist Catholic lite.

Christ is Risen,
Carpathian

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Quote
If I were not a Catholic, I would be ROCOR. I would sooner be ROCOR than a modernist Catholic lite.
If I were not beautiful, I would be rich. I would sooner be Iron City than Miller lite.

Axios

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Dear Carpathian,

Actually, our old parish priest at St Nicholas, although Ukrainian Catholic, held ROCOR in the highest possible esteem for their "sincerity of Orthodoxy" and frequently mentioned ROCOR news during his sermons.

He had two Ukrainians that belonged to the ROCOR jurisdiction write the icons for the entire Church in the old Carpathian tradition.

I visited Jordanville once and I'll never forget it!

RELAXIOS - AXIOS! smile

Alexios

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Everything works out in God's good time!

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An Update:

http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.a....html&storyID=6021&boardID=52169

Extract from "The Washington Post":

One monk has died in the standoff, a 25-year-old who drove a tractor into a ravine last weekend trying to avoid a police blockade.

I pray to God that all this be resolved for the sake of the Holy Mountain...

Anton

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Dear Abdur,

I respect very much the Athonite tradition and I visit myself the Holy Mountain quite frequently but, please, allow me to tell you that some of the pages of the history of the Garden of the Virgin are not so glorious as you reflect in your post. Allow me to give you some examples:

1) The fathers of Zografou Monastery died as martys because they refused the union with the Latin Church under Patriarch Bekkos, but there were also Athonites monks among those who signed the Union of Florence

2) Agiorites monks took up the arms to liberate Greece from the Turks in 1821, but, as you will probably know, some of the Athos monasteries had a lot of privileges under the Othoman rule (properties in Rumania e. g.) and were in good terms with the Turks. Many Greek Orthodox clergymen condemned the Greek Revolution of 1821 while others did just wait ank keep silence

3) During II World War the Agiorites monks opened the Holy Mountain to the Greek Resistence (even to women), but one should not ignore that some Agiorites monasteries (St Panteleimon) wellcame the German ocupation troops and put a portrait of Hitler in the great "archondariki" or "xenonas" of the monastery (if I am not wrong this portrait is still in that place)

...lights and shadows in the Garden of the Mother of God

Yours in Christ
F

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