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Mar 25th, 2025
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Father Deacon Lance, You are more than correct in your English translations of the word 'grapho' from the Greek. I think that I once remember hearing that it is the unique approach of creating an icon that sets it apart artistically. My husband took a workshop at our church from a pretty cool iconographer, he is a Southern Black American, former Baptist turned Orthodox!  I wasn't into painting an icon, (my love for art is limited to its appreciation and history), but my husband was. With each layer, if I remember him telling me correctly, you say a certain prayer. I think this is what sets it apart from other sacred art, and perhaps that is why some put an emphasis on the 'writing' bit...it is as if you are 'writing' a prayer book, or something like that!  Respectfully, Alice
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I agree, Alice. After hearing some pietistic derivations of why it had to be "writing icons" (no doubt they are visual theology), and those from some fairly renowned iconographers which sounded reasonable to me I also decided to do a bit more digging. After a little more personal etymylogical study of the Greek origins as you and Fr. Deacon have mentioned, in the end it really doesn't matter. "Write" or "paint" are both consistent with the meaning. Leave it to the Greeks to have built-in economia while the linguists argue...
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Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
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Some years ago I remember reading in the newspaper about a man who painted icons. He would fast for days and pray before painting. Said he had to be in the right state of mind and so forth to paint.
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Thanks guys and gals,
I always worry about expresing the icons the wrong way when talking with people. So it is good to know that both ways count. Now I can breath a big sigh of relief, I now know the easiest way to state what I am saying.
Pani Rose
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Alleghany, the painting/writing of icons was considered akin to a "sacramental" and there were extra prayers, the Office, etc. for preparation and fasting.
When monks would paint/write, they often would not choose what they were going to depict but the abbot or spiritual father would choose for them, their hands being then a vehicle for the Spirit.
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Dear Carole, Monastery Icons checkered past lies in their self-identification as "Gnostic Orthodox", an oxymoron if ever there was one. They at one time were a [western] Hindu community, who then made the transition to the outer trappings of Orthodox monasticism. There exists a book by their abbot that tells of his visit to a temple of Kali, goddess of death, and his encounter with her, an encounter that to most Christians reads like an account of possession.
Besides that, their icons are not that great. They are well painted, but the colors are odd and the overall feeling is too sentimental. In fact they remind me of Hindu devotional art. And the iconographer signs his name, a deviation of true iconographic practice.
In short, there are lots of orthodox distributors of icons. Granted Monastery has cashed in on the demand for Western saints, but I would counsel avoiding giving them your business.
-Daniel
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"Gnostic Orthodox", an oxymoron if ever there was one. They at one time were a [western] Hindu community, who then made the transition to the outer trappings of Orthodox monasticism. Is that like the so called Minister Fherakan(sp) identifying himself as an Islamic Baptist Preacher? Was listening to C-Span last week just to see what was being said and people were eating it up. OH MY!  God's Word says my people parrish for lack of knowledge. That is why knowing Scripture and understanding the history and teachings of the Church is so important. To know what was the oral tradition handed down, now written for us, truly prevents error like the above Islamic Baptist. Pani Rose
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Originally posted by iconophile:
Dear Carole, Monastery Icons checkered past lies in their self-identification as "Gnostic Orthodox", an oxymoron if ever there was one. -
Was this on their website at one time? I don't see anywhere in the site where they describe themselves as "Gnostic Orthodox" or Gnostic or Orthodox anything. Their "About Us" page says: About Monastery Icons
Sacred Arts Foundation is pleased to announce its acquisition of the Monastery Icons collection of sacred art � a unique, modern testimony to the timeless ancient, classical tradition of Christian iconography. These "Windows Into Heaven" with their bright, rich colors and English text are treasured in thousands of churches, schools and homes throughout North America.
Our broad selection of sacred and liturgical arts includes holy gifts for every occasion, church banners, sacred art to commemorate your special events, and Monastery Incense, the most popular liturgical incense in America. This unique incense formula was created as an alternative to the mediocre incense that has been at the heart of so many parishes' "incense problem." And we are glad to say that according to our customers, Monastery Incense has solved the problem!
Sacred Arts Foundation is a non-profit foundation created to strengthen faith and encourage Christian devotion in churches, schools, and individuals through a ministry of traditional Christian art. As the contemporary iconographer Photios Kontoglou expressed so well, "Icons raise the soul and mind to the realm of the spirit."
We thank you for offering us the opportunity to share with you the inspiring beauty of sacred icons, and through our art and incense to contribute to the spiritual life of your parish and home. Originally posted by iconophile:
And the iconographer signs his name, a deviation of true iconographic practice. On the larger images of their goods for sale on their website I don't see any signatures either. By the way - I haven't purchased anything yet and I am still looking for what we will purchase ... I was just curious. Thanks again everyone! In Christ, Carole
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Originally posted by Pani Rose: [b]"Gnostic Orthodox", an oxymoron if ever there was one. They at one time were a [western] Hindu community, who then made the transition to the outer trappings of Orthodox monasticism. Is that like the so called Minister Fherakan(sp) identifying himself as an Islamic Baptist Preacher? Was listening to C-Span last week just to see what was being said and people were eating it up. OH MY! God's Word says my people parrish for lack of knowledge. That is why knowing Scripture and understanding the history and teachings of the Church is so important. To know what was the oral tradition handed down, now written for us, truly prevents error like the above Islamic Baptist. Pani Rose [/b] I don't know about Islamic Baptists, but I certainly have met what I thought were Catholic Buddhists.
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Originally posted by ByzCathDad: Hi, Carole
You might want to check out - if you haven't already - www.skete.com [skete.com]
Sam - Thanks for the link! While I'm at it - asking annoying questions that is - anyone know anything about www.comeandseeicons.com? [ comeandseeicons.com]
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Dear Carole, Years ago when I first became interested in icons I contacted the GOA asking where I could find icons. They directed me to Holy Transfiguration Monastery (Brookline,MA). If I am correct, this Monastery is now considered schismatic to mainstream Orthodoxy, and they definitely don't accept Catholics as being part of the true church, but their icons (mounted prints and/or photographs) are definitely O/orthodox. www.htmadmin.phpwebhosting.com/ [ htmadmin.phpwebhosting.com] Go to this sight and click on icons, click on T, find the icon of "Thomas the Apostle". Check out some others and you will be able to see the difference between their icons and Monastery Icons. Bill
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Carole,
Sorry that link isn't working for me.
Bill
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Dear Daniel and All, The same debate for writing vs. painting holds true for signing icons also. I've seen many Greek icons that have the name of the iconograopher on them. Photios Kontoglou, known for a rebirth in traditional iconography in the Greek tradition signed many of his works. Signing an icon is not to be understood the same as a signature on a painting. A signature on an icon should be understood as "From the hand of, (whomever the iconorapher is),guided by the Holy Spirit, to the glory of God". The signature is usually small and inconspicuous. I have a beautiful icon reproduction of "Christ Pantocrator" that is signed in Greek, "Michael Monk, Karyes, Holy Mountain, 1989". Many of his icons are available from St. Isaac of Syria Skete. The icon I have however, was made in Canada, and is one the nicest reproductions I've seen anywhere. It looks like a newly written/painted icon. I've been trying to find out who makes these icons but haven't had any luck. The religious goods store where I bought it no longer has any of them and couldn't tell me where they got them. Leaflet Missal Co. has a couple of them on their website but never answered when I tried to find out who makes them. I just happened upon it one day when I stopped in the store. Bill
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Originally posted by Bill from Pgh:
Carole,
Sorry that link isn't working for me.
Bill That's because I'm braindead... http://www.comeandseeicons.com The question mark should not have been in the link ... my mistake. Sorry!
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Dear Carole, Your link worked just fine! I meant the link to HTM that I tried to post. Your brain is working just fine. It's mine that could use a tune-up. Bill
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