www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Are the Seminaries Pro-Gay?

Is there perhaps not a significant element of socio-cultural behavior operative here?

Take a priest who is 60 years old. His 'identity' will contain elements of the 1950s and 1960s and the lifestyles that were prevalent then - when he was growing up.

Take a priest who is 28. His socio-cultural roots are in the 1980s and the lifestyles of that era.

If the 60 year old priest decided to get his ear pierced and wore an earring, folks might legitimately ask: "what's up?". But for the 28 year old who had an earring, should this be considered a problem?

Sure, those of us with the grey hair might look at the 28 year old with the earring and say: "What the hey!", but in reality it is a cultural thing that would not (in all likelihood speak to us) but it just MIGHT speak to the 28 year old priest's contemporaries. Is this a bad thing?

Last week at Lambert/St. Louis airport (Gate 28 to Nashville), I saw an amerikanski wearing a slavic riason and pectoral cross (not a 3 bar), with a sort of trimmed beard and a pony tail, along with his wife and three little boys. Passers-by kind of stared at him. I thought: some of the pravoslavny will probably make a major poklon and start the 'hand-kiss' thing right in the concourse. (No one did.) But I thought, "well, if it's OK for him to represent 19th century Christendom through his attire and demeanor", then why shouldn't a younger priest (amerikanski) wear a cleric shirt and have an earring to symbolize 21st century Christianity? So that the kids with the skateboards and biker wallets and tats would say: "cool".

It is clear that the contemporary cleric should be able to be identified as "clergy", either through the Roman collar or a cross/crucifix, or whatever, but also not be simultaneously 'off-putting' by wearing a "dress" in public. (Actually, wearing the cassock/riason in public was prohibited in the 1920s by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops.) So, it seems that the individual priest needs to make serious investigations and decisions on his comportment and demeanor ('demeanour' for Alex) to be effective in the public domain among the general public. I surmise that it is the contemporary culture that has to be the benchmark for the paradigm that a priest uses to gauge his ability to be effective in dealing with both the churched and unchurched.

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John,

Yes, "Demeanour!"

While we're at it, please do consider using "Kyiv" rather than "Kiev" which is the colonial spelling.

I would have thought you Greeks of the Church of Istanbul would be sensitive about things like that . . .

Alex

First of all, I've read a lot of responses to this topic, but I do not believe anyone actually addressed the issue....and that seems to be the prevaling "Catholic attitude."

I will address the silence first:
A couple of weeks ago I e-mailed the pastor of the local Ukranian Catholic Church concerning this topic. I asked him this question: If someone in the parish is struggling with homosexual temptations, would he/she know that this is considered an abomination in the Lord's eyes? Do you preach and teach the official church stance from the pulpit?

All I got for a response is: (my paraphase)Yes, this is sinful behavior, but we are not to judge anyone.

What the hell kind of an answer is that? He just ducked the question. So based on that, if I am having homosexual relationships and in bondage to sexual confusion, I will never hear from the pulpit (at least his, anyway) that Jesus has set me free from this addiction and confusion?

The Scripture PLAINLY teaches that all "who are in Christ are a NEW creation; old things have passed away." In case no one participating in this forum realizes it, the "old things " that have passed away are our ORIENTATIONS...we should be familiar with that compromising and politically correct word.

If we have been truly born-again, and I mean a true regeneration--a true conversion-- caused by the Holy Spirit, not some ritual performed when we were infants, we have been set free from these orientations. The orientations of gluttony, adultery, homosexuality, gossip, falsehood, drug and alcohol dependency..and the list goes on..you get my drift.

Our priests, both RC and BC, must boldly proclaim this!!! Yet the pulpits are silent. I attend both RC and BC churches, and I have NOT heard either pulpit address the issue. Perhaps the church is more interested in being political correct?

I think the problem arises with the mis-application of Jesus' admonishment in Matthew 7: "Do not judge or you will be judged." This is always taken by liberals or worldly Christians to mean: you may never say anything to anyone at any time about any sinful behaviors since we are all sinners.

This is the biggest lie from the pit of hell!!! This means we are not to critically condemn anyone for any sinful behaviors they are involved in. I give you the example of the woman who was about to get stoned after being caught in adultery. The people publicly declared that she was an adulteress and that this was sinful behavior; however, Jesus didn't chastise them until they were ready to stone her after condemning her in their hearts. Jesus did not chide them for publicly bringing to her attention her sin. This is an important truth that goes ignored and untaught.

St. Paul teaches us in his epistles that we are to correct our brothers who are straying from the faith; you can't correct or bring back someone until you have confronted an individual with their behavior(s).

The church isn't afraid to publicly state the sinfulness of abortion. Why aren't they worried about passing judgment on this issue? The church isn't supposed to pick and choose its topics to preach about. It must be this vocal also concerning homosexual relations.

Okay, enought of this for now.

Addressing the issue of the seminaries:
Someone stated that it doesn't matter if someone has a gay orientation or not, he may still celebrate the Litury/Mass.

Yes it does make a difference!
If a priest does not wish to address his ORIENTATION (what a cowardly way to say sinful nature!!!!), God may decide NOT to anoint an individual's ministry or not. When I participate in the Liturgy and hear a homily, I certainly want to hear how to apply the chosen Scriptures for the week to my daily life by someone who is on fire for the Lord...don't you?

Do we want our spouses and children to hear homolies from men who do not wish to confront their sexual confusion? Or do we want to hear the Word of God proclaimed and taught by men who desire to know the cause of their unnatural behavior(s) in order to confront, repent, and engage in spiritual warfare in order to overcome?

I think the answer if obvious.

Sorry to have so much of an "in your face" attitude concerning this, but I have had it with our limp-wristed pulpit. We are to tell the truth, not tickle the ears of those in attendance.

In HIS service,
Walter Metrick

A sinner saved by Grace and Divine Mercy

Dear Walter,

Thank you for sharing the perspective of a certain portion of the Catholic Church. I appreciate your candor.

Axios

Agreed.......thanks Walter for the nice read.