|
2 members (Fr. Al, 1 invisible),
342
guests, and
122
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,521
Posts417,615
Members6,171
| |
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517 |
Christ is Risen!
It's spring, and paschaltide - and thanks for supporting my proposal. Truthfully, it doesn't make too much difference who organizes the effort, so long as it is done. It should be worthwhile in itself (by bringing together people who are seriously interested) and may well have a positive effect on the immediate topic of discussion.
in the Risen Lord,
Incognitus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688 |
Incognitus,
IIRC, the text of the Divine Liturgy had already been sent out with musical notation in the recent past (within the last 2 years?) to various memebrs of the faithful, clergy and laity. I seem to remember a thread on this forum that touched upon this topic.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517 |
CHRIST IS RISEN!
Dear Father Deacon,
Alas, my alphabet soup has failed me. What does IIRC signify?
Incognitus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 153 |
IIRC = "If I recall correctly"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517 |
Dear Father Deacon - CHRIST IS RISEN!
Thanks for the translation of the acronym. If your memory is indeed correct, why not create - probably within the forum but as a separate heading or something similar - an ongoing discussion by posting the whole text (music and all, if that's possible) and inviting comment?
Incognitus
P.S. We might recommend a glass of wine to go with it. That way there will be wine and song (those who desire the third delightful distraction must look after that for themselves!)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688 |
Dear Incognitus, I must ammend by previous post since IDNRC (I DID NOT RECALL CORRECTLY  ). The thread I was refering to is The New Liturgy Embedded in the linked thread were comments regarding the Divine Liturgy. However, as Professor Thompson pointed out at that time what had been circulated at the time for comment was not the text of the Divine Liturgy but transcrptions for the prostopinije. Here's a selected quote from Professor's Thompson's post from July 13, 2002, which, by the way, still provides timely counsel: First of all, what was sent to Fr. Elias was NOT the text of the Divine Liturgy of our father among the saints John Chrysostom. He was sent, and I quote from the cover letter,
"Enclosed please find a transcription for the prostopinije for the celebration of the Divine Liturgy of our father among the saints John Chrysostom. Each section of the Liturgy has a foreward, explaining changes (if any) in the "Cantus Receptus" of the Metropolitan Province, as well as dtailing sources in Slavonic for each piece of the chant."
In other words, Fr. Elias (and many others) were being circularized about the musical transcriptions which were sent--in the hopes that feedback from the priests, monastics, and cantors from throughout the four eparchies of the Metropolia would be immensely helpful. Only small sections of the text of the DL were included, so that the musical selections would have a context.
I was not on the IELC when the translation of the DL was made. As in every work, there are things that were done--either by the committee or by the revision of the committee's work by the Council of Hierarchs--with which I do not agree. This is human nature. However, I stand behind the work of the Inter-Eparchial Commission on the Sacred Liturgy and Music and on the verdict on that work from the Sacred Oriental Congregation in Rome.
It is evident from reading all of the comments on this list that not one of the commenters has actually seen a complete text of the Divine Liturgy. It is also painfully obvious that comments are being made about methodology and scholarship and "political correctness" without any apparent effort to discern the absolute veracity of the texts commented upon. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373 |
That is why the proposed texts SHOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED so even the lowly lay people could see what was being purposed. Rumors and fears of what the final texts will be are running rampant because the common lay people have had no say in the matter and no way of knowing what was being purposed.
Christos Voskrese! Voistinnu Voskrese!
Christos posred'i nas! Jes' i budet!
Ungcsertezs
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373 |
It would be nice if the "new" pew book text and music be posted on the official Archeparchial website where everyone could "come and see" what will be imposed on the Ruthenian Metropolia. Is that too much to ask??
Ungcsertezs
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941 |
IMO, FWIW, No. It is not too much to ask.
Indeed, it is a puzzle why one would not post provisional texts and settings, so that authors and musicians could potentially learn from the feedback. In the past, it would have been a great problem to disseminate material and gather feedback. Now, it's trivial.
I think the folks involved would need stout hearts: people want what they want, however those opinions are informed, obviously will argue strenuously for it. And so would those who would respond, but whose opinions would not carry the day. But the fireworks will be far more unsettling if the faithful are just presented with a fait accompli.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 674
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 674 |
Originally posted by djs:
But the fireworks will be far more unsettling if the faithful are just presented with a fait accompli. On this, we agree. If the Archbishop really wants to do this, he has a lot of 'selling' to do. (I will not be easily convinced, but) I look forward to listening to what he has to say.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941 |
I don't think we do. I said nothing about anyone selling anything. I said that I think that people should be able to give input. But I also think that people ought to have the humility to accept decisions that may not be to their liking without seeing opponents, inventing their agendas, and exciting warfare.
|
|
|
|
|
