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Bless me a sinner, Venerable Father Silouan!

The suggestion that Canons and Akathists can be included in the Compline (and Midnight) service is excellent.

There is, in fact, no limit to the number of Canons and Akathists one may recite at the close of Compline and a prayerbook in my possession recommends that the Canons to our Lord Jesus, the Mother of God and the Guardian Angel, along with an Akathist to our Lady, be recited daily. In addition, it recommends a Canon be added in honour of the Saint of the weekday e.g. the Angels on Monday, John the Baptist on Tuesday, the Cross on Wednesdays and Fridays, the Apostles and St Nicholas on Thursday etc.

But one may said many more than these, if one wishes, and this shows how our Church has established an "outlet" for our own private devotion above and beyond what is prescribed by the Daily Horologion.

St Jonah Atamansky of Odessa (+1924) used to rise at midnight for the Nocturns and he then recited Akathists until morning!

His prayer was very powerful and he performed many miracles.

Before his death, he prayed in this way for nine consecutive nights over the bed of a girl born blind.

On the tenth morning following, the girl could see with 20/20 vision.

Alex

Slava Jesu Kristu,

But, there again we see a difference between East and West. We "added to" our usual devotions to the Theotokos while the West had devtions that "took the place of." Don't misunderstand me, it is a beautiful devotion in itself. But it should be a compliment to and not in place of the daily cycle. This is not the case with many devotions in the West (and some in the East). It also illustrates the non-litugical aspect of many Western practices which the East has picked-up over the years. Again, I don't believe there is anything wrong with this, but I do not feel it is really comparable to our traditions.

Dmitri

Dear Dmitri,

Yes, indeed, you've put your finger on the main difference between East and West here, you "vostochnik" you!

The Eastern Canons and Akathists are liturgical prayers that can also be said as private devotions at any time.

The "Moleben" is adapted for use by laity themselves, and can be used to honour any Saint or Icon, at any time, and as many times as we like.

Eastern Saints have also compiled private prayers such as the daily prayers to the Mother of God by St Nilus the New, those of your patron again and others.

St Tikhon Zadonsky had only a representation of a "Way of the Cross", life-size, in his cell and he meditated on these frequently.

The icon of St Seraphim of Sarov, as popular as it is, is really a Western picture.

The West did develop many paraliturgical devotions that tended to reflect the chasm between liturgy (priest's jurisdiction) and rosary etc. (laity's jurisdiction).

Alex

Alex: You mentioned Saint Thomas More. He spent time with the Carthusians in the London Charterhouse (about 3 years) before it was decided that marriage was his vocation. He probably prayed the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary throughout his life as the Carthusians made a daily practice of praying the daily Little Office and, as a matter of fact, still do, in the privacy of their cells. Oh! I love those Carthusians!
Silouan

Bless me a sinner, Venerable Father Silouan!

And I love that wonderful alcoholic beverage the Carthusians make! Don't we have an obligation to give financial support to such holy religious Orders?

Yes, Fr. Andrij Truch in his Ukrainian life of St Thomas More does indeed mention his devotion to the Little Office.

Again, some well-meaning posters here miss your point which is to ask about the HISTORY of the use of the Little Office in private in the East, NOT whether our respective Eastern Churches should formally adopt it etc.

And we are always able to pray what prayers we like as individuals surely?

Thomas More, as you know, prayed three hours morning and evening.

He followed the Carthusian practice of existing on five hours of sleep per night only throughout his life.

He went to confession twice a week and to Mass and Communion daily. He always took Fridays as a holiday to spend it in meditation on the Passion of Christ.

I visited the reconstructed Parish Church of Thomas More in Chelsea some time ago and spoke with the Anglican pastor there.

The bodies of his two wives are buried in the same vault there and this is where St Thomas, in life, served Mass as a common Cantor ( ).

When the King was waiting for him to show up for a meeting, More refused to leave Mass early.

On the way to the late meeting, More was chastised by those with him for keeping the King waiting - and making him angry.

But More replied, "His Grace the King cannot be angry with me for serving His Grace's Sovereign!"

And you are right. The Little Office was universal in the Latin Church for the laity. It served as a lay Office around which other accretions were built that rounded out people's devotional lives, such as the seven penitential Psalms, the Litany of the Saints, etc.

Such Books of Hours were often gorgeously appointed with colourful pictures, lettering etc.

The laity were devoted to their prayers, and often began praying from these books while still in bed, first thing in the morning.

The Western Orthodox continue to print and use the Little Office of the BVM, which, over time, gained an almost semi-liturgical status alongside that of the Office itself.

Alex

[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Slava Jesu Kristu,

It is the History that is the point. It is not part of our history as is questioned originally depsite your anecdotal findings.

Dmitri

Dear Dmitri,

Unfortunately or not, the use of the Little Office even by glorified Orthodox Saints, such as St Dmitri Rostovski (he'd have a thing or two to say to you about that ) is part of the history of this topic as raised by the Venerable Father Silouan.

So is the Rosary, the Stations of the Cross (St Tikhon Zadonsky and current local Orthodox practice) etc.

One could argue that it was never part of the liturgical tradition of our Church, which it never was of course.

But the fact is that it was used as a private devotion even by Orthodox Saints albeit of the Latinized Kyivan Baroque period.

Whether we are Eastern Catholic or Orthodox (or both ), we are entitled to pray using the traditions of other Particular Churches, be it Latin, Armenian, Assyrian, Alexandrian, Old Believer, what have you.

I know I do and feel the richer for it.

Alex

Slava Jesu Kristu,

Yes, but even my beloved St. Dmitri would admit he BORROWED from the West thus illustration it never belonged to us. That is my point.

Geez..never argue with a Ukrainian... :p

Dear Dmitri,

You mean you are not Ukrainian?

St Dmitri was actually very loyal to the Orthodox Church!

When he borrowed such devotions, he tried not to make reference to their Western roots.

Instead, he and others tried to find their roots in the common heritage of the once undivided Church.

So in his intro to the "Tale of the Five Prayers" he simply casts this as a revelation to an Orthodox Monk.

The Russians also developed a view of the Rosary being given to an Eastern Monk of the Thebaid in the 8th century (See "Staretz Zechariah: An early Soviet Saint, Chapter 6 - I forget the page number exactly).

St Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain used to translate all manner of western spiritual texts for Orthodox consumption, including the Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius Loyola.

He didn't put down who the author was, of course. But it came out later and he was criticized.

However, Loyola's work, in Greek, is STILL used for spiritual reading and practice on Mount Athos.

The same thing is true about the Spiritual Combat that began its life as a Latin spiritual text that was later re-shaped a bit by St Nicodemus and afterwards was re-shaped more significantly by St Theophane the Recluse.

Not everything about Roman Catholic spirituality is bad for us Easterners, Big Guy!

God bless you and all the people of N'Awlins!

Alex

This may have already been stated, but it is my understanding that litneys to the Blessed Mother used by the Romans came from the Akathist Hymn.

Rose

Dear Rose,

You are quite right!

And Joe Zollars also came across a Latin version of the Akathist hymn from a source that suggested that it was sung even in the Latin Church in the southern parts of Italy! (Right, Joe?)

Alex

Dear Friends, Just some info gleaned from Marina Warner's book on the Virgin Mary--I guess somewhat off topic. The kontakion appeared in the West in the 9th or 10th c. Stanzas tossed back and forth between soloist in pulpit and choir below in urgent and rapid dialogue, punctuated by a repeated profession of faith. It was invented 6th c. by Romanos Melodes in acrostic form. In one of the earliest and greatest of Italian vernacular poems, the Franciscan Jacopone da Todi (c.1230-1306)gave unique voice to the Virgin's suffering in the Eastern tradition. Jacopone's dramatic hymn on the Passion, Donna del Paradiso (Lady of Paradise), is very close to the East in feeling. Can anyone comment on this? Thanks, Vito

This is a very interesting thread. However I think I may be misunderstanding some of what has been said here. As I have inferred the general concensus the Little Office is here seen as a purely private devotion of the laity, and as such cannot be understood as liturgical, but rather as having only been derived from that. But, as I understand the conciliar documents of Vatican II this is not necessarily true. Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, has this to say:

"98. Members of any institute dedicated to acquiring perfection who, according to their constitutions, are to recite any parts of the divine office are thereby performing the public prayer of the Church.

They too perform the public prayer of the Church who, in virtue of their constitutions, recite any short office, provided this is drawn up after the pattern of the divine office and is duly approved."

As can be seen here the Little Office, if approved as is Fr. Rotelle's here in America, is in fact a part of the public prayer of the Church. Would not this mean then that it is more than a purely personal and private devotion? At least so far as I can tell, the Little Office must be considered a liturgical prayer, and not simply derivitave.

Please correct me if I am wrong here, or if my understanding of this document and what it is stating is somehow in error. The posters here certainly have a better grasp of this subject matter than I, and I have greatly enjoyed absorbing from it.

God bless,

Patrick

CIX!

Dear Dr Roman,

I thought I was the one who found it! :p

If anyone wants it in txt format, they're welcome to email me at kyrie@pacific.net.sg and I'll email it as an attachment.

in Domino,

Edward

Dear Patriarch Edward,

Mea culpa!

Alex