www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology what bible do eastern catholic churches use?

Alex, I have 3 Catholic Bibles, the New American Bible (NAB), the Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition (RSV-CE), and Today's English Version, 2nd Edition (Rainbow) Bible (TEV) and none of the parts you mentioned are separated. Perhaps you saw a New RSV Bible made for Protestants that had those sections separated? They would be an improvement for them no?

Yours in Jesus and Mary,

BradM

Ghazar,

Well, I've been to 4 or 5 Masses and 1 Divine Liturgy and I never noticed a "ranking of Scripture." How can the Word of God be ranked?

Everyone:

I am still unsure how there can be an accepted variance of canon inside the Church. Does this not cause division? For example, it would seem to because someone believing Book X to be inspired tells someone who doesn't believe Book X to be inspired that "God says such and such through the inspired and infallible canonical writings of Book X."

How did the Church of the first millenium deal with this, or was it not dealt with at all? Did it even need to be dealt with?

Logos Teen

Dear Brian,

Yes, sorry, I forgot . . .

Thanks for being my sparring partner in helping me procure that quality of sarcasm . . .

Behind every Orthodox in communion with Rome theren's another trying to get out of it!

Alex

Dear Brad,

The Common Bible and the New Revised Standard Version both have the books separated, but also have the additional books for the Orthodox Churches.

I don't think that is an improvement as far as our Protestant friends are concerned.

I think it is more in terms of an ecumenism where Catholics "give in" to Protestant views and are then "allowed" to keep (as an "add-on") they're additional books, views etc.

The problem with that kind of thinking is that a Catholic can start to think of the common tradition that he or she shares with Protestantism as "The Tradition" while what he or she holds as a Catholic to be somehow "secondary" and eventually "not as important."

I used to think that way in high school myself, I'm sorry to say.

Alex

Dear Teen Logo,

I've been reading through the Seven Ecumenical Councils for Lent and I've come across no fewer than FIVE lists of Scriptural books . . .

But what we are dealing with in terms of the differential involve a few books more or less.

The bible is not the only source of Tradition that we follow as you know.

The canons of the Councils, and other sources of Tradition are also there to inform and guide our Faith.

So the fact that there are a few Old Testament books that are added by the Eastern Churches makes not one iota of difference in terms of the overall Orthodox and Catholic Faith of Christ.

Why is Donnchadh so upset with me? Don't you think I'm nice?

Alex

Alex I'm not our beloved Teen and I will ignore your First question to him - but the second one ????

Now come on that really is loaded

Damned if he doesn't answer it and damned if he does

Teen - for all our sakes and particularly since it's Great Lent - leave him guessing



Anhelyna

Dear Anhelyna,

Well, don't YOU think I'm nice . . . sniff . . .

Alex

Ooooh do you think I am daft enough to answer that one ??

Haha - I'll leave you guessing

Me - I think it would be wiser to invoke the Fifth Amendment even though I am a Scot - safer all round if I want to survive

Anhelyna

Dear Anhelyna,

Fifth Amendment?

Scotland isn't part of the U.S. yet, is it?

Alex

Forgive my ignorance, but what the heck is "Donnchadh"?

Yes, Alex, I suppose I can stomach you.

Logos Teen

Just to make sure we understand each other. My Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition has all 73 books with no separation between the "additional" books. The one New Revised Standard Version I saw at my work (a Lutheran retirement home) I am assuming was a Protestant Edition, because it did not say Catholic Edition, so by not stating it was Catholic I am assuming it was Protestant.

How can you make the Protestants change the edition they accept to the Catholic one? Trying to get Protestants to do anything Catholic is like getting a devout Jew to accept Jesus as the Moshiach! I know I have tried to discuss topics with both and they both "have eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear!" hehe

I too would like that the version they sell would be identical in format as my Catholic edition, but at least they include it in the same Bible, just in a separate section.

How would you get the Protestants to change their version so it is the same as the Catholic Edition?

Yours in Christ,

BradM

Dear Teen Logo,

"Donnchadh" is the screen name of one of our posters who took issue with my exuberant personality that sometimes tries to hard to be entertaining here!

St Donnchadh was the Abbot of Iona who actually took part, I believe, in the Synod of Whitby that "put down" certain Celtic Christian practices such as their Celtic tonsure of monks (across the top of the head, from one side to the other, sometimes referred to as the "tonsure of Simon Magus"), a differential in their calculation of Easter, marriage of clergy, the deferral of the reception of Communion at Easter until St Thomas' Sunday and not on Easter itself etc.

"Duncan" is the anglicized form of this name.

Alex

Dear Brad,

Well, I think that Catholics and Protestants collaborating on Bible editions have achieved unity by keeping the OT books they have in common in one collection and then listing the deuterocanonical books that they don't in another collection, as the Common Bible and the NRSV does.

They have also included the six extra books that Orthodoxy also maintains as inspired Scripture, even though they do include the fourth book of Maccabees and include somewhat of a lame explanation justifying its inclusion.

The Protestant rejection of Alexandrian Canon had definite dogmatic overtones - the Maccabees mention prayer for the dead and refer to Judaism's liturgical heritage which the extreme Protestants rejected.

We must also remember that Martin Luther himself also categorized the New Testament in terms of "Canonical and Deutero-Canonical books" and left the "deutero-canonical books" out entirely, especially the "epistle of straw" as he called it, the Epistle of James because it clearly stated that "justification is by works and not by faith alone."

The only time the New Testament mentions "faith alone" is in that Epistle - and it does so to condemn it.

Alex

Subject: the six extra books that Orthodoxy also maintains as inspired Scripture.

Dear Alex,

This is new to me. What are these six books? Are they different than a Catholic Bible that has 73 books in them? If one includes these six books would we now have a Bible with 79 books? What are the names of these books? Thanks.

Cordially in Christ,

BradM

Dear Brad,

I don't have my NRSV bible handy but I recall these as being: Psalm 151 (which is "outside the 150"), the Prayer of Mannasseh, the third book of Maccabees, and second and third Ezdras but that is where the memory fades . . .

There is also a slight difference between the Greek and Russian Orthodox OT texts that is noted in the Common Bible and in the NRSV.

But, forgive me, I forget . . .

The Ethiopians add two more OT books (Jubilees and Enoch) and add eight more books to the New Testament, the "Apostolic Constitutions" - the Assyrian Church actually has a 22 book New Testament.

I don't know if Psalm 151 counts as a separate "Book" since it is an integral part of the Psalms and in Orthodox Psalters follows immediately after the end of the 150.

So I guess the point is not the actual counting up of books in the OT, but the fact that there are different Canons of Scripture other than the ones the RC and Protestant churches established.

The Eastern canons have never been an issue as this matter has never come up as a point of disagreement with the West ever. Both sides now of each other's slightly different OT canons and neither ever considered this to be a problem.

And while Luther didn't inclue James, Jude, Hebrews and Revelation in his New Testament, the Calvinists also wanted to get rid of Revelation as being "unintelligible."

Alex