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#4565 04/17/03 09:43 AM
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Dear Friends,

I just read an article that some Latin dioceses in Ontario, Canada are curtailing many traditional practices this year for Holy Week due to health concerns brought on by the outbreak of SARS. See link below for full article:

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/news_03041610417.html

My question is how are Eastern Catholics & Orthodox impacted by this? Is veneration of icons discouraged (unless wiped down with disinfectant)? What about communicating with the spoon?

Maybe some of our Canadian brethren can enlighten us?

PAX

N.B. It looks as if my plan to visit St. Elias in Brampton this summer may be in jeopardy. frown

#4566 04/17/03 09:49 AM
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Dear Benedictine,

Yes, the Toronto RC Archdiocese has come out with new rules where crucifixes will not be kissed, the Chalice will not be shared and Communion will only be given out in the hand.

I think our Eastern Churches will do what they've always done - ignore whatever happens in mainstream society and pretend they are still living in the ethnic homeland. . . wink

Alex

#4567 04/17/03 10:03 AM
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Hello,

I woke up this morning, came downstairs, looked at the computer and this is the first thing i saw:

April 16, 2003
To the Reverend Pastors/Administrators:

In view of the caution expressed by the public health authorities about SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome), you are asked to respond prudently and pastorally in your particular parish situation.

In general, be sure to ask the faithful to cooperate fully with the public health authorities. This means that if any person is exposed to SARS they must observe quarantine.

If anyone is sick, they should stay home. People with a fever and/or a dry cough should consult a doctor to determine their particular case.

Pastors may distribute Holy Communion from the discos rather than from the chalice, or by intinction, using elongated hosts.

The kiss of peace may be expressed by a bow.

Instead of kissing the Cross, Gospel, Artos or Plashchanycia, the faithful should make the traditional bow(s) and cross themselves as a sign of reverence.

Please remember in your prayers those who are suffering in these difficult times.

Fraternally in Christ,
+ Cornelius J. Pasichny, OSBM
Eparch of Toronto and Eastern Canada


I personally think this is blown out of proportion . Have we no faith in our own Eucharist? I can't believe that the church is playing into the hands of the media (which I think has blown things out of proportion).

KEEP KISSING ICONS, GO TO COMMUNION THE TRADITIONAL WAY. I can think of about a million worse ways to die.

Oh, exactly what are 'elongated hosts'anyway?

The sad thing is I can see most of our parishes playing into this stuff. I am sure lots of them will be exited simply by the novelty of this all.

I hope i am not out of line.

ilya


Ilya (Hooray for Orthodoxy!!)Galadza
#4568 04/17/03 10:09 AM
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Dear Ilya,

And when have people like you or I ever cared if we were (out of line that is)? smile

I repeat what I said earlier, our EASTERN Churches will probably ignore . . . wink

Alex

#4569 04/17/03 10:16 AM
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well I have been told that some of my comments are not too appreciated and I would hate to offend our father Cornelius.

ig


Ilya (Hooray for Orthodoxy!!)Galadza
#4570 04/17/03 10:35 AM
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Dear ilya,

I do have faith in the Eucharist, but... I don't think we should tempt the Lord.

Your comments remind me of the debate in the Roman church once the common chalice was restored. Many assured us that the alcohol content in the consecrated wine would "kill" any & all germs and viruses from the flu to HIV. Others with great faith and devotion asserted that the transubstantiated Blood of the Lord could NEVER be a conduit for disease. One of our priest-monks who has a doctorate in chemistry and teaches biology in our college considers such claims dubious - both scientifically AND theologically. He says that God gave us common sense, so if one is sick - communicate in a way that will minimize contagion. confused

PAX

#4571 04/17/03 10:45 AM
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And with respect to SARS, seems like the most sensible thing might be simply to open some windows.

Why are air travellers at such risk? Because on airplanes they keep recycling the same air over and over. (It's cheaper.)

With all due respect to the hierarchs involved, it seems rather silly to issue such directives with regard to SARS - unless what they aren't telling us is that they are also trying to reduce the risk of transmission of hepatitis, chickenpox, colds, influenza - fill in the blank with YOUR favorite communicable disease! And if'n they are, why NOW???

Legislating liturgical practices by the news headlines seems an iffy proposition at best....

My $.02....


Sharon

#4572 04/17/03 10:59 AM
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my feelings exactly.

ilya


Ilya (Hooray for Orthodoxy!!)Galadza
#4573 04/17/03 11:15 AM
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Dear Sharon,

Yes, but . . .

SARS is a nasty and highly contagious disease and we in Toronto have been hit badly. We all listen to the radio each morning to hear the numbers of those who are infected and who has died from it.

Our economy is suffering too, and our government is constantly on the TV and radio telling people to wash their hands.

I go to a bus-stop that happens to be inside the hospital near where I live.

I see people going in who are obliged to wear masks, gloves, and aprons.

It is quite the terror. Even a human rights group has publicly condemned the backlash against Oriental Canadians . . .

So I respectfully disagree with you. You are not here - thank God for that.

And Ilya is a nice fellow, strident at times, but nice enough.

He too has no real conception about the fear that is out there about SARS - I do because I work with people in the public living with that fear daily.

The Church has issued such guidelines because it could possibly be liable if people got infected because of kissing Crosses and Icons etc. I don't know, but it might be possible given the fact that everyone else is sending out warnings and that it is possible to pin-down where one was exposed to the SARS virus.

And, as I understand it, one reason why the Latin Church introduced Communion via the species of Bread only had something to do with the Plague long ago too.

Benedictine presents a sound, balanced approach - something one would expect from a son of St Benedict.

Alex

#4574 04/17/03 12:26 PM
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Dear Friends:


An ounce of prevention is far better than a pound of cure. . .

The Latin Church is sensible enough to heed this simple rule.

There is NO known cure for SARS as of this moment. Virologists know the symptoms but has not corralled the cause and, therefore, the possible medicine or therapeutic regimen to curb or cure it.

It is not certain that the mode of transmission is facilitated by "re-cycled" air in airplanes.

Nobody has come out definitively if the virus is aerobic or anaerobic.

There are still so many unanswered questions regarding this communicable disease that to be cavalier about it borders on s. . .

Canadian scientists have just pinpointed the genetic map of the virus, which has been determined to be a coronavirus, akin to the virus that causes common cold, which has no cure.

Now, given the fact that Toronto has experienced the highest mortality rate in North America, second only to that of Hong Kong and mainland China, is it unwise for the Catholic Church to forewarn the laity of such grave danger?

At any rate, the warnings are given only to areas where the disease has taken its heavy toll: Hong Kong and, now, Toronto.

My wife, who is herself a doctor, is sensible enough NOT to kiss me good night these days! wink

Patience and understanding should be the rule for the day.


AmdG

#4575 04/17/03 12:33 PM
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Dear Amado,

Happy Easter, you and your entire family!

Alex

#4576 04/17/03 12:34 PM
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If I might add my minor contribution here. In areas that have been stricken by SARS, it is no doubt important for the Church to take temporary action to protect its members and its eucharistic and religious practices. But it is important not to overreact, because it's very easy for temporary measures to become established as normative practice.

We have seen this happen in the Episcopal Church. In the early 80's, after the emergence of AIDS as a public health concern, bishops began permitting, and encouraging, the practice of intinction. Indeed, we have even seen the introduction of "intinction chalices." This has continued to be the case, even though we now know that AIDS is not communicated by the chalice. All Western liturgists discountenance the practice of intinction, yet it has become now established practice in most dioceses in the country. In my parish here in Pennsylvania (I have been rector here for 1.5 years), I would estimate that 50% of the congregation intincts.

This is, IMHO, a terrible liturgical practice. Our Lord commanded the sharing of a common cup, precisely to sacramentally enact our community in the Spirit. He did not command us to dip, which is more an individualistic action. Judas, I think, may have been the first intinctor. wink

In the West, intinction has been consistently rejected. See the history of intinctio panis in the Catholic Encyclopedia: Intinction [newadvent.org] . I know from another source that the primary reason offered for this rejection was that of dominical authority--the Lord mandates the sharing of the cup. Of course, the West then ignored all of this when it decided that it had the authority to withdraw the chalice altogether from the laity. This withdrawal of the cup had nothing to do with public health concerns, and it predates the Plague that ravaged Western Europe. As is well known, the Anglican Reformers called for the restoration of the common cup on the basis of dominical command; they were equally hostile to intinction for precisely the same reason.

But all of this has changed now, due to paranoiac health concerns. (I am not talking here about SARS, about which I know very little.) Scientific evidence indicates that germs are indeed transmitted to the cup through the sharing of the chalice, but not in any way that constitutes a risk to public health. Exchanging the Peace is far more dangerous! Moreover, there is no evidence that illness rates are any different among common cup drinkers than among the unchurched. If the cup constituted a risk, then one would expect to find that Episcopal priests, who consume the contents of the cup after everyone has communicated, would be more susceptible to illness. But this is not the case.

I recommend the following two links: Intinction and Illness Rates [elca.org] The author of this study is a microbiologist and an Episcopalian. Risks of the Common Cup [anglican.ca] This is an official report of the Anglican Church of Canada.

Fr Kimel

#4577 04/17/03 01:40 PM
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Bless me a sinner, Father Kimel,

How interesting!

How do you then view the normative Byzantine practice of distributing Communion then?

Isn't that a form of intinction?

A happy Easter to you!

Alex

#4578 04/17/03 01:48 PM
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Well, it's not my place to criticize, especially if one lives in a glass house, as I do. smile So let me respond in the form of a question:

If the dominical mandate is our authority for what we do in the Eucharist, how does one justify a departure from the mandate, especially when the universal Church for almost a thousand years practiced communion in both kinds and shared a common chalice? Quite frankly, I cannot think of any good reason that would justify a permanent change in catholic practice. Can you?

Fr Kimel

#4579 04/17/03 02:58 PM
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Dear Alex,

I work two blocks north of you. I see and hear the same things every day. I skateboard through chinatown everyday amogst old people wearing masks. I do think a major percentage of this hype is due to media coverage. They absolutely love this, especially the stuff about churches not complying with health regulations. Again, use your head. If you are sick, stay home. How many thousands of people die of the flu each year?

ilya


Ilya (Hooray for Orthodoxy!!)Galadza
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