www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News The liturgy & SARS fears

Dear Ilya,

You live two blocks from me?

Give me a call at (416) 325-6271 - I owe you a lunch at the very least!

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Father Kimel!

"Dominical mandate?"

Well, our authority is more along the lines of what was taught by St John Chrysostom, not St Dominic . . .

Westerners will be Westerners after all!

Have a blessed Easter!

(Does your Church strip the altar garments? What are some unique Anglican Holy Week traditions?)

Alex

Alex,

I work at dupont and spadina, close enough.

ilya

And in point of actual fact, the kind of masks one sees worn are pretty useless against virii.

Sharon

Dear Ilya,

Give me a call next week and we'll set up a mutually agreeable time to have lunch.

I order you to . . .

Alex

Dear Sharon,

B'shem haAv, v'haBen, v'Ruach haKodesh, Elohim echod - Amen!

Happy Passover - both Christian and Jewish!

Yes, your mask comment reminded me of the fellow who had an operation in hospital.

After he later saw the bill for his operation, he remarked: "Now I know why they all wore masks!"

Bashana haba bi-Yerushalayim! Next year in Jerusalem!

L'chaim!

Alex

But I bet that you'd agree that Jesus trumps both St. John Chrysostom and St Dominic!

The Byzantine practice of combining the two species in the chalice and then communing with a spoon was not introduced until the 8th or 9th century. So I've got Chrysostom on my side here. Just call me simple catholic, as opposed to a Byzantine innovator.

Father Kimel

I don't think any of our traditions are unique or peculiarly Anglican.

Tonight we celebrate the Maundy Thursday liturgy, which will include a foot-washing, open to all the congregation (but of course only a few will participate). After communion, we will kneel before the Blessed Sacrament that will be reserved for communions on Good Friday, and we will sing St. Thomas's hymn "Humbly I adore thee." We will then process to the Lady Chapel, which has been decorated as the Altar of Repose. The Altar is stripped and all portable appointments are removed from the Sanctuary. A vigil is kept before the Blessed Sacrament until midnight.

Tomorrow at noon we celebrate the Liturgy of the Passion and Death of the Lord Jesus Christ, which includes the reading of the Passion according to John (said, unfortunately, but one of these days we will have the musical resources to chant the Passion), the Solemn Collects, Veneration of the Cross (with the Reproaches), and Mass of the Presanctified.

On Holy Saturday morning there is a short office of Scripture and prayer. We do not celebrate the Great Vigil (yet), as that has not been a tradition in our parish.

So it's all fairly routinely Western. What makes it Anglican is that the ritual is executed with grace and dignity and the music is beautiful.

I feel that it is not unreasonable to insistitute temporary measures for the protection of the faithful. I tend to feel that bishops are responsible when they act out of such concern. I understand that the Latin church suspended some practices temporarily during the WWI-era flu epidemic. SARS seems to have spread pretty well through Toronto and environs, and caution strikes me as responsible. There is much that is not known about SARS, except for that it has made a lot of people very sick and some of them have died.

There is tradition, yes, and I am a huuuuge fan of tradition. But one can, for example, venerate the Cross without kissing it. When I have been just getting over colds and past the point of coughing and sneezing, I tend to touch and bow before the Cross and icons.

There is an interesting discussion of this topic over on the Orthodox website Monachos.net. There the contributors are arguing quite passionately that the Lord would never allow his Holy Eucharist to be a source of contagion.

I respect the piety expressed, but this strikes me as bordering on the superstitious and magical. I totally agree that we should not allow our fears to dictate our eucharistic practice and separate us from our Lord in the Eucharist and from each other; but there surely is a place here for reason and commonsense and prudence, don't you think?

SARS and Eucharist [monachos.net]

Fr Kimel

Don't let them scare you with that. There have always been many diseases, a precaution is always necesary, but there are a lot of black comets flying over there whose purpose is to scare you.

This is becoming very much like the Antrax hoax and the Al-Qaeda biological weapons thing. You cannot let terrorists to win the battle and to keep you living in fear and at the same time helping those who want to scare you because of different reasons.

At the time of the true epidemies in europe people would do the opposite, they united in prayers at the churches and went to confession a lot, and the Eucharist too.

Although it is a controversial subject I am curious to know if there has ever been any reports throughout history of the Holy Eucharist spreading epidemics? I have heard that wine has a natural element in it that kills any infectious bacteria. But what of the bread (Both leavened and unleavened)?

Forgive me (Especially on this Holy and Great Friday), for daring to ask such a question. But I feel that, in cases like this, we must be open the past in order to truly examine what must be done.

In Christ,

Robert

I have never at any time in either my theological or healthcare education heard of anyone being made ill through reception of the Eucharist. Apart from those with the alcoholic gene who do best to avoid wine and those who react badly to wheat, there has not been, to my knowledge, any problem.

As for SARS. The virus is a corona virus, related to the rhinoviruses that cause the common cold. It is respiratory, that is: it needs to be breathed in to cause infection. (Just like tuberculosis). Our sister Sharon is correct that the 'respirators' (commonly known as 'masks') cannot filter out viruses - they are waaaaay too small. (The HIV virus is 27 nanometers wide, that is 28 x 10 -8 (exponent!) or nine zeroes followed by a 27. Waaay tiny.) However, the virus itself cannot travel "alone"; it needs a carrier, namely droplets from the lung or oral cavity of an infected person. Thus, if a person has SARS, he or she should wear a respirator, and the healthcare folks ought to also. (Same precautions as with TB). These details are outlined at the CDC website: cdc.gov (Go to the section for medical professionals - it's more detailed.)

Therefore, DO NOT have any hesitation whatsoever about receiving the Eucharist during this most holy season. Only if someone near you is coughing violently and frequently should you worry. (And those with developed SARS are usually too sick to be out of bed - or in regular cases - out of the hospital.)

Blessings! Remember me in your prayers.

As one who drinks from the bottom of the cup, I do so without hesitation or fear. It is neither bread nor wine but truly His most pure body and blood.

That being said there must be some pastoral conscern for the sensibilities of the people. While the dictates of the timid cannot be the cause of even temporary change in our traditions, at this time of great and almost universal fear, particularly in the areas experiencing the greatest number of cases, some small precautions such as suggested by His Grace, Eparch of Toronto, do not seem inappropriate.

We need not turn the reception of Holy Cummunion into a test of the strength of our faith but rather to maintain it as a source of nurishment for both the strong and the weak. If the proposed prcautions will allow those who might otherwise not approach, to continue to receive than such IMHO are worth it.

The only thing necessary is the vigilance that when SARS has run its course we return to our normatve practices.

Joseph deacon

Slava Isusu Christu!

In our Ruthenian Church we do not place our mouths on the communion spoon; it is dropped into our mouths as we tilt our head back; so that eliminates many infection "concerns."

When I was OCA the priest put the communion spoon in our mouths. Coming from the Byzantine Church I was alittle apprehensive at first, since I was used to our Ruthenian priests dropping the Species in, but I got used to it.

Regarding the kissing of the handcross, the festal ikon et al: I think we should realize that there are many other diseases out there as well. Are we going to stop venerating the holy things because of the possibility of infection. Obviosuly not. If the hierarchs want to ask to faithful to bow without kissing the ikons, Gospelbook or the handcross then fine, but this should only be temporary and with appropriate instruction. But because things done like these could quickly become customs, they need to be done only in grave situations.

In Christ,


Robert