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Since I am a Roman Catholic, will all of you please explain to me the consecration of the bread and wine into the real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus in the Byzantine Rite and what it consists of? I've heard that the consecration takes 6 hours!!! Is this true? I think it was a friend of mine who told me this and he used to be Byzantine. I could be getting that wrong because, before he was Byzantine, he was Russian Orthodox and maybe they do it like that. Personally, I believe that your consecrations are valid, since you are Catholic. Are there any Roman Catholics who believe that your ways are not valid and, if so, why would they think such thoughts? Please excuse me if this may sound like it would lead to some controversy, as there is no intentions of this. I am just interested in knowing more about how you Byzantine Catholics do things. I was always raised into knowing about things that are Roman Catholic and I never heard about Byzantines, except for once in the 80's and once in the 90's, until less than two years ago, when I became friends with someone who is now a Roman Catholic, but used to be Russian Orthodox and then Byzantine. So, I am interested about the consecration, as I believe that your way is just as totally valid as the Roman Catholic way.

God bless!!!

Pax Christi!!!

Ave Maria

Dear Ave Maria,

I don't know of any Church that takes six hours for the consecration. :p What the RC's refer to as the "Consecration" is the Institution Narrative. The longest I've ever heard it go was like five minutes, and I think that was a Coptic Liturgy. Everything else is probably shorter than this.

Of course, one could get into a discussion about the Eastern view of when the "Consecration" takes place, how the whole of the Liturgy is one consecratory act, etc., but I'm not qualified to discuss that.

Ave Maria,

The very best thing for you to do is to visit a local Byzantine Catholic Church and experience the Divine Liturgy for yourself. That is really the only way to understand.

To quickly answer your questions, the consecration does not take six hours. The Divine Liturgy in most Byzantine Catholic parishes is between 60 and 90 minutes long. There are no real differences in the Divine Liturgy as celebrated in a Byzantine Catholic parish and an Orthodox parish. The texts are identical and the only exceptions are based upon the usage of the Mother Church (there are slight variations in the way the liturgy would be celebrated in a parish of Ruthenian origin, Ukrainian origin, Russian origin and Greek origin). This is not really any different than the way a Roman Catholic parish in Ohio might celebrate the Mass a bit differently than a parish in Scotland or in Argentina.

Yes, there are some Roman Catholics who believe that our ways are not valid. This is mostly because they do not know anything about us and are also ignorant of the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding the Eastern Churches.

Finally, the Catholic Church teaches that the Sacraments of the Orthodox Church are all valid.

Admin

When I first attended Divine Liturgy I felt like I wished it lasted six hours! (OK, maybe a bit much) At the end I just stood there with this big broad smile all over my face!

All my reading and praying did not prepare me for the majesty and reverence I experienced there. I love the liturgy, it helps me express my faith. Sometimes I am almost moved to tears and I have a hard time leaving.

Now that I am getting to know the pastor and the congregation a little better I sometimes see someone I don't really recognize standing there at the end of service, with a big broad smile, a gleam in their eye, unable to move...

Michael

The Catholic Church accepts that Orthodox Mysteries (Sacraments) are valid.

Talk about long, Let me tell you, when Orthos and the Lituargy of St Basil with all the Troparion and Kontakion are put together and the cantors sing in 1/4 time it can take 2-3 hours.I like it but my kids seem to take alot more bathroom breaks.

Chad! Try doing that on strict fast too

Dear Ave Maria,

Two of the fruits of the Second Vatican Council coming from the riches of the Eastern Catholic tradition are the liturgy in the language of the people and a reemphasis of the "epiclesis" at the consecration during the Mass, the action of the Holy Spirit Who enacts the mystery of the change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. Formerly, we Roman Catholics heard more of an emphasis of the priest "in persona Christi" at the institution narractive.

Many Latin Rite Catholics are unfortunately unaware of the treasures of the East. I would humbly encourage you to attend a Divine Liturgy and do some spiritual reading on the Eastern Church and encourage your family and friends to do the same. The steadfast witness of Eastern Christians to our Trinitarian faith is awesome.
We are blessed to form one Body of Christ together.

Dear Ave Maria,

Khrystyna has the Rites of it!

The emphasis in the Byzantine Liturgy is on the Holy Spirit Who effects the transmutation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of OLGS Jesus Christ.

But, in fact, the whole Trinity is invoked during the Canon.

The Father is invoked in the Anamnesis or "remembering."

The Son in the Institution Narrative.

And then the Holy Spirit in the Epiclesis.

In the East, the priest "stands back" so to speak and invokes the Holy Spirit on the Gifts, even though he has already recited Christ's Words: "This is My Body, This is My Blood."

"Changing them by Your Holy Spirit - Amen, Amen, Amen."

The Spirit takes the Words of Christ pronounced two thousand years ago and empowers them in the Now so that we might become participants in the Eucharist - the Cross, the Resurrection and Pentecost.

But, as the Administrator said, you have to experience it, to believe it!

As for the six hours, the theologian Alexander Schmemann said that in the Eastern Liturgy Christ is present from its very beginning until the end.

The idea that the Eucharistic Canon is the most important part of the liturgy, as if the others are somehow of diminished importance, is a Western idea.

Alex

Hello:

The Byzantine "equivalent" of the Roman Mass is the Divine Liturgy. In general, it has the same structure of the Roman Mass: Liturgy of the Word first, then Liturgy of the Altar.

Most days of the year, our Byzantine brethren use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, although other liurgies are prescribed for certain specific days. You'll find that the variations among these liturgies are not greater than the variations you see within the Roman Mass with the various prefaces and Eucharistic prayers we use.

The Byzantine liturgy is generally chanted, and extremely beautiful.

About the consecration part of the liturgy itself, you'll notice the significant difference that the Epiklesis (invocation of the Holy Spirit) is done AFTER the Words of Institution.

It might. But then again, the Roman Mass might also take 6 hours depending on the day and who celebrates.

The truth is that the average Byzantine Divine Liturgy on a "regular" Sunday would probably take about 90 minutes. Only slightly above the average of the Sunday Mass at my Roman parish.

Hold it right there, please.

The validity of the Sacraments, including the Eucharist doesn't come from Communion with Rome.

God gave the Sacraments to the Church, and the Sacraments are valid wherever the Church might be. Since those Eastern Churches, even those that are not in Communion with Rome, are real, whole and living Particular Churches, the One True Church of God subsists in them and therefore, their sacraments are valid.

The Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East all have valid sacraments, as valid as those of the Church of Rome, or any other Particular Church in Communion with her.

Sadly, there are. And the reason is two-fold: Ignorance and arrogance. A lethal combination when it comes to Christian charity.

Good! But I insist: This total validity extends not only to the Byzantine Catholics, but also to ther true Churches that are not in Communion with the Church of Rome, the Russian Orthodox included.

Shalom,
Memo

>>>Two of the fruits of the Second Vatican Council coming from the riches of the Eastern Catholic tradition are the liturgy in the language of the people <<<

Sadly, this "fruit" opened the door to alot of liturgical abuse and ad libbing on the part of the priest.

Also, while there may be more emphasis on the invocation on the holy spirit in the new mass, the priest still acts "in persona Christi." This has not changed.

Columcille

I must comment here, and I am sure that Lance can comment on this also.

Most people will not notice the Epiklesis, unless they have their own books of the Liturgy, as the Epiklesis is taken quietly, I say that as I serve at the altar and I can just make it out if I have my hearing aids in and I pay attention. Also it is not in most pew books, as it is a silent prayer of the priest.

David

Dear Columcille,

Language is a living thing. The original liturgical language of the Church was Greek. Latin was adopted when it became the language of the people of the Western Church. The unfortunate liturgical abuse we are seeing in some Roman parishes is due to a lack of fidelity on the part of those priests, not the vernacular language of the liturgy, I think.

And yes, you are correct, the Roman Rite priest still acts "in personal Christi" but I think, following the lead of the Holy Father, the priest now incarnates more of a "servant" model than in the past and the restoration of the Epeclesis to its pneumatalogical emphasis is in keeping with the earliest traditions of the Church.

I find it SO beautiful and helpful that the Epiclesis is taken aloud in my OCA parish with the entire congregation responding with the "AMens" and touching their hand to the floor in a Great Poklon. Truly, an AWESOME response to an Awesome moment in the LIturgy (not to use this term in it's California "Dude" sense

Another point that I don't think anyone has brought up: Jesus, Himself, did not call down the third Person of the Trinity at the Last Supper. He effected the change by reciting the "words of institution." We talk of the Western Church needing a stronger epiclesis, but Jesus used a very simple "ritual" at the Last Supper. This also fits in with the doctrine of "in persona Christi." The priest effects the change due to his office as "another Christ."

Columcille