www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology A philosophical question about the Trinity

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity asserts that God is three distinct Persons, "one in essence and undivided." From a philosophical perspective, however, it is logically impossible to have three distinct instances of one essence, or three Persons who are numerically indentical. For reference, numeric identity is the relation that obtains each thing and itself, i.e. "Joe Smith is Joe Smith."

Numeric identity is a problem because, as stated above, it is logically impossible to have two (much less three!) distinct instances of the same essence. Each Person may be exactly identical to the other two, but each is, by neccesity, a distinct entity (or essence). How can the Father, for example, be both the Father and the Son in essence, yet remain somehow distinct from the Son?

Please forgive any inaccuracies or awkardness on my part. I'm relatively new to philosophy, but I really enjoy it. Though I know that the Trinitarian mystery is beyond complete comprehension, I'm curious to know how past philosophers, either eastern or western, have tackled this problem. Thanks for the help!

God bless,

Chris

Dear Chris,

I believe that within the Essence of God, there is the Creator that is called the Father. The Logos; Word or Expression of God that is known as the Son, and the part of God that enlightens us, (as well as comforts us), so that we are able to comprehend the Word. It is known as the Holy Spirit. They are distinct, and therefore three Persons, yet comprise one God.

This is my own understanding...through my own sense of reasoning. I hope I'm right!

Zenovia

Zenovia,

Thanks for the help. I guess I'm wondering what it means to be "within" the Godhead. If there are three incarnations (for lack of a better word) of divinity within one essence, how can the three really be distinct? Are they distinct relationally, but not ontologically?

God bless,

Chris

Dear Christ,

I think you're getting a little above me here.

Zenovia

Don't worry; I'm pretty confused myself!

Christ :p

The dogma of the Trinity is not an abstract philosophical concept; instead, it is a revealed truth that can only be experienced by grace (i.e., divine energy). With that in mind, by the gift of participation in the divine energies a man can experience the persons of the Trinity and know that they are distinct only through their hypostatic modes of origin: the Father is the uncaused cause within the Godhead, while the Son is generated by the Father alone, and the Spirit proceeds existentially (i.e., as hypostasis) only from the Father. In other words, multiplicity in the Godhead is a hypostatic reality, and not an essential one, because the divine essence, which is beyond being, is common to the three divine persons. Finally, because God is adiastemic and essentially beyond being, it is impossible for human philosophy to penetrate into the transcendent life of the uncreated Creator; instead, only grace (i.e., divine energy) can give man a real participation in, and experiential knowledge of, God.

From +Gregory Palamas:

"The Spirit of the supreme Logos is a kind of ineffable yet intense longing or 'eros' experienced by the Begetter for the Logos born ineffably from Him, a longing experienced also by the beloved Logos and Son of the Father for His Begetter; but the Logos possesses this love by virtue of the fact that it comes from the Father in the very act through which He comes from the Father, and it resides co-naturally in Him.

It is from the Logos's discourse with us through His incarnation that we have learned what is the name of the Spirit's distinct mode of coming to be from the Father and that the Spirit belongs not only to the Father but also to the Logos. For He says 'the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father', so that we may know that from the Father comes not solely the Logos - who is begotten from the Father - but also the Spirit who proceeds from the Father. Yet the Spirit belongs also to the Son, who receives Him from the Father as the Spirit of Truth, Wisdom and Logos. For Truth and Wisdom constitute a Logos that befits His Begetter, a Logos that rejoices with the Father as the Father rejoices in Him.

This accords with the words that He spoke through Solomon:'I was She who rejoiced together with Him'. Solomon did not say simply 'rejoiced' but 'rejoiced together with'. This pre-eternal rejoicing of the Father and the Son is the Holy Spirit who, as I said, is common to both, which explains why He is sent from both to those who are worthy. Yet the Spirit has His existence from the Father alone, and hence He proceeds as regards His existence only from the Father. Our intellect, because created in God's image, possesses likewise the image of this sublime Eros or intense longing - an image expressed in the love experienced by the intellect for the spiritual knowledge that originates from it and continually abides in it." Topics of Natural and Theological Science #36

And later on:

"Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostases. As we have seen, those privileged to be united to God so as to become one spirit with Him - as St. Paul said, 'He who cleaves to the Lord is one spirit with Him' - are not united to God with respect to His essence, since all theologians testify that with respect to His essence God suffers no participation.

Moreover, the hypostatic union is fulfilled only in the case of the Logos, the God-man.

Thus those privileged to attain union with God are united to Him with respect to His energy; and the 'spirit', according to which they who cleave to God are one with Him, is and is called the uncreated energy of the Holy Spirit, but not the essence of God..." Topics of Natural and Theological Science #75,

The Trinity is not a philosophical truth. However, look at it this way: a divine Person is a real divine relation as subsisting in the divine nature or essence. Since there are several real relations in God, there are several Persons in God. Thanks to insight from Aquinas I could go on and on.

Double posted AGAIN! I've got to stop hitting th quote button when I mean to edit.

Lo siento!

Dear Papaflessas,
Thank you for your interesting quote from St Gregory Palamas. Although the Byzantine terminology is unfamiliar to Roman Catholics like myself, I am starting to understand, thanks to this forum, what is meant by "Divine Essence / Divine Energy", less clearly articulated in Latin theology.
I was particularly impressed by the way St Gregory's teaching is just what I was taught about the Trinity as a novice in 1962, in the context of understanding the filioque controversy.