www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology I like pews . . .

John,

Do you know what a prostration in the eastern Catholic tradition is?

Eli

A nice alternative to pews, but a bit more traditional and flexible is rows of arm chairs. My parish has them, and they look quite nice.

I have also noticed that Greek churches in Greece, which once only had benches around the parameter for the old and infirmed, have now set up rows of arm chairs too in the center of the churches.

Ofcourse, in the Greek tradition, full prostrations (for John: think of a Muslim worshipping--it is essentially the same gesture) and deep bows are generally not made during services, so for us, it does not hinder anything.

I understand that this is different in the Slavic traditions, and therefore, I understand the concern of having pews and rows of chairs for those who follow that tradition.

In Christ,
Alice

I agree with byzanTN. Just looking at me no one would think that a young teenager would need to sit in a pew but I have a skin condition on my feet that makes them hurt super bad sometimes. Also, I don't want to be judged by other people in church just because I need to sit down.

In Christ,
Katie g

Eli,

No, I guess not. I assumed a prostration was a deep bow while making the sign of the Cross.


Alice,

Thank you for that clarification. And the arm chairs are an interesting idea.


-- John

Eli,

Our church is covered from floor to ceiling with icons. During Divine Liturgy, which typically runs about 1:20, all of the little kids (we have dozens in the parish) get restless. They rarely sit for more than a few minutes. One way to calm the kids down is to walk over and reverence an icon and light a candle. Pews make this difficult.

Also, the pews limit the full expression of the Little and Great Entrance.

Finally, pews make bowing and crossing ourselves tough.

Our DL is about more than listening to preaching. It is about the Eucharist. It is also the work of the people.

In Christ,

John

I have to take this statement to task. While in most cases I find the arguments against pews to my taste and preferences, this statement I find to be inaccurate.

Where I serve and most of the other churches I have had the privilege to serve in, there are pews. I have never been impeded from doing either entrance with as many as 12 altar servers. This would include the prescribed circumnavigation of the church for the Great Entrance.

The rest of the arguments against pews are valid, and other options have been given. Let's not give excuses that are not really valid points. I am sure that other priests, though they may dislike pews, will also back this point up.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

A senior memeber of the Russian Orthodox Church when giving a talk to visitor on his church, explained that it was perfectly normal to go outside and come back in if it was needed. That children were trained to sit on the floor near their parents and that it was understood that little children had needs that had to be met. That we were in our Father's house and we were very welcome to be here. Adults he added do go outside to excercise the legs now and again however he cautioned that going for a smoke or gossip was not what was intended. Seating was provided towards the back and the sides.

Father Anthony bless!

I have been to a parish in our Metropolia where there are so many pews that there was hardly any space to move around. In that case entrances were a challenge.

Another thought ... pews inhibit the acoustical flow of our plainchant.

A second thought ... the Pantocrator makes an awesome reflection on the polished floor when pews are femoved for church cleaning.

In Christ,

John

I think you may be attributing something to something I said that has nothing to do with what I was thinking or asking. Please see the response to my direct question.

My regular charge on Sunday morning's is a four year old train engineer. I generally wind up with an engine in one pocket and a caboose in another. I have learned that legs make very good mountains and tunnels. <Toot> <toot> CAN be expressed in a whisper and I've only ever kicked the little curtain climber in the nose once or twice. He forgave me both times and now keeps his nose clear of my toe. I deeply dislike pews.

I love side chairs. My back is very bad and I stand for nearly all of the liturgy but there are days when the pain is not as severe but both legs go to sleep, and sitting becomes a must.

I stand leaning on a wooden crutch so that I am able to last most of the liturgy that way. Crutches are also quite good for hanging things on if one is little and has "stuff" that needs to be hung up for safe keeping.

Eli

I agree.

Father,

How does one do the Little Entrance with a full house of pews? I can see that the Great Entrance is possible but how does one do the Little Entrance? Do you process outside the Church building?

CDL

The UGCC just go straight from one door to the next here in Australia, unlike other Byz. Churches.

As a deacon at the Little Entrance I take the Word out for the veneration of all in the knave who wish to venerate. In the front half of the Church where the pews have been removed, there is a wonderful movement through the people with the Word, fluid and beautiful. People come up, bow, cross, kiss, and I give the greeting of the season. Mothers and fathers hold the children up who especially love to kiss the Word.

In the back part of the Church where the pews still are in a couple of rows, it is very ackward for those who wish to move over to venerate the Word, and more than once I have heard some say they wish the benches were perimeter benches along the wall as they are in the front part of the church. The space simply makes movement in and through the Church much easier without them, at least in my experience. And then again I am 6'3" 280 so I need a lot of room...
FDD

Hey there Deacon in Christ, who you calling a knave? Must have connections with people who know me, or a secret camera.

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