www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology How Many Are Thinking About Leaving?

Deacon Lance,

You said I would like to see an example of what you originally cite.

Tony

Apotheoun,

What is "the traditional manner" you mention above? How is anthropos/chelokev distibguished from aner/muzh in "the traditional mannner"?

Tony

Friends,

Much has been said in other places on this board about the "Ruthenian recension" and distance, etc. That is all, no doubt, very important. Also, what is important IMHO should be what the other Churches of the same family are doing, in a similar vein as Alex mentions above.

As an example, I offer you the text of the dismissal as it is used by the GCs in Slovakia.

The entire text of the liturgy can be found here [grkat.nfo.sk] . If your browser doesn't recognize some characters it might be good to go see the text there.

The GCs in Slovakia use "lebo je dobr� a miluje n�s" which means "for (He) is good and loves us."

Tony

Alex,

I've come to a conclusion based upon this thread. If there is a translation and one iota is changed I will join the Muslims for sure. At least, so they say, nothing in the Qur'an has ever been changed. If two words are changed I think I will contemplate suicide since surely God does not exist if two words are changed.

Isn't most of this thread simply gossip?

Dan L

I support the bishops 100% in whatever they want to do with the liturgy. We are not Orthodox. Whatever they do or don�t do with the liturgy is of no concern to us.

Frank,

This thread has rather surprised me. I think it reflects a certain fear that the Archeparchy is about to collapse completely and many posters here secretly wish to jump ship. Why else would it be titled "How many are thinking about leaving?" I thought the people here were made of stronger stuff.

If we are to die let us die fighting sin and evil not each other. A curse upon the fear this thread represents.

I propose once again that instead of succumbing to ones fears that the posters here stop posting and go over to the Evangelization forum. The world needs the message of a Church that is willing to give its life for the reunion of East and West. If people aren't willing to help promote this vision which is far grander than preserving an iota in a liturgy or even in preserving an Eparchy then please be quiet...I'm as polite as I can be...so the rest of us can go about the business of the Church.

If ones abilities are in liturgy then one should offer ones services to the Bishops and have at it. This thread is worse than worthless.

I'm with you. I'm supporting our bishops. If I'm a fool for doing so, so be it.

Dan L

Be careful my brethern,

Once the door is ajar, it is hard as heck to close it, just look at what happened in the West, blaming it on "accidental" bad translations of the Latin.

Accidents my ... foot.

james

Maybe if the modernists weren't always meddling with things then this thread that you curse wouldn't exist.

I agree, let's not fight each other. Let's not meddle with the liturgy and move on to better things.

I find it hard to believe that the bishops would have any interest in having ones services for input on the liturgy.(if that's what you meant)

You have every right to think that this thread is worthless. But if it's so worthless why are you here posting on it. If the evangelization board is where all the enlightened are posting then read that board. More power to you. There are many threads that I don't have an interest in, and do you know what I do, I don't read them.

Bishop Elko would have loved you.


Michael Cerularius

Thanks for your perspective Dan.

We're so used to leaping to the mat - even still fighting battles of many years ago - that we don't stop to realize the terrrible example that we give.

Dan, you would make a terrible Muslim. Since they don't excommunicate, within a month, they would kill you. You have too much attitude to be a good Muslim.

Children are starving to death in Sudan as we debate whether the Magisterium should change the Liturgy....

Let's get a little perspective here.

Tammy

My dear friend, are you not a convert yourself?

People DO take their liturgy seriously. Changing the liturgy, even if it is for good reasons, is also changing people.

I once changed the tone of the week from the standard Tone 4 Alleluia and got Hell for it from the peanut gallery. I was accused of changing their religion.

Many laity do not prioritize things in their religious praxis. How we make the sign of the cross is not less important than whether the Trinity is three persons or four.

Joe

Dear Tony,
Please accept my most appreciative thanks for giving us the link to the Slovak text. The Eparchy of Preshov produced a ghastly revision of the Divine Liturgy in 1986 which caused a storm of protests among Byzantine Catholics of various Local Churches and ethnic origins. The present Slovak text is a straight translation of the 1941 Roman text in Church-Slavonic. I've not yet had time to look at it as closely as I would like, but it appears to be slightly more accurate than the Pittsburgh-Passaic 1964/65 English translation.
This demonstrates that persistent protest, done properly, can succeed; if people had shrugged their shoulders and said "well, we can't fight those in power" and suffered in silence with the 1986 Slovak horror, there would not know be the overwhelming improvement. As it is, we have yet another example to show that what the Pittsburgh Metropolitanate is attempting to do is not even supported by the praxis of the rest of the Byzantine-Ruthenians, let alone the rest of the Byzantine Catholics.

Incognitus

Dear Dan,
Thank you for your gracious and enjoyable response to my cheap shot. As we are taught, a soft answer turneth away wrath! Not that I was angry in the first place; I simply saw a temptation that I was not quite up to resisting at that moment.
Let's write it off as a meshuggeneh!

Incognitus

J Thur.

I agree whole heartily!

Yours in the risen IC XC.