www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Hades or straight to Heaven?

Alex:

Above you said:

Indeed, I have difficulty with "forecourt." But if you meant "foreplay. . ."

AmdG

Dear Amado,

That can be "heaven" too . . .

Alex

"Both Churches, East and West, agree that a Divine Liturgy offered in honour of a saint can give the saint added "joyfulness" and honour in heaven. Thus, a dynamic is involved here. One doesn't stand still in holiness, even in heaven."

Alex, does this mean that their degree of glory is increased in heaven or that they expand in their set degree of glory merited on earth? Thanks!

Adam

Dear Adam,

It's a good thing my little humour with Amado didn't affect you . . . I would have had you on my conscience otherwise .

Sanctity is something that involves both the individual saint and the Church as communion of saints that help form and support the individual on his or her road to union with the Holy Trinity in Heaven.

So I believe the answer to your question is "Both at once."

Alex

Thanks Alex! That helped a lot.

Adam

Dear Adam,

The stuff on the forecourt or the foreplay . . .?

Sorry, sorry . . .

Alex

It's ok, Alex. Hope your conscience is alright now.

I have another question. lol. I heard an Orthodox priest say that righteous are purified by going into hell for a period of time. Yet other Eastern Christians say that this time of "final theosis" is a time of great joy and peace not like hell at all. Which view is correct? Does a change take place in the final theosis like from hell to paradise? Thanks.

Dear Theosis,

Ultimately, who can know for sure?

We know that nothing impure can enter final union with God in Heaven.

We know that not every state of sinfulness is deserving of eternal damnation.

And we know that our prayer for the reposed helps them get closer to God.

There is a dynamic at work in the Eastern Church's patristic view here.

Some believe that when we see our Lord Jesus as He is, in all His loving and wonderful glory, we will become so ashamed at not having given Him our all during our life that this sense of "burning desire" to be at full and complete union with Him will purify all that is unworthy of Him.

In terms of states - the Orthodox perspective tends not to speak of them too much, we are either on our way to union with God, a path that begins in THIS life and now, or else on a path that goes away from Him - again something that begins now and in this life.

We have no need to fear, only have faith, live a life of prayer and service and trust Christ for the rest.

He is the Lord of all. With Peter, we should say, "Lord, You know all things. You know that I love you!"

Alex

Dear Justin/Maximus

What is your source for the Latin belief that those in Heaven already possess a glorified body?
Someone else tried to explain it to me one time, but since it was something I had never heard before I thought it sounded wrong. Since I am hearning this again, I would like to read up on it.

Can you point me in the direction of your source?
thank you
denise

Dear byzinroswell,

Good question. And I have a good answer.

Actually, it was in community from a community brother who was at onetime in seminary and took a fair amount of theology class. That's the most I can tell you. I respect what he says though because he was probably the most or second most knowledgeable person regarding theology I have ever met in my life. He use to bust my balls all the time LOL. I probably would have learned more on this subject but as he told me one day, not happy about it: "I was told not to discuss theology or the Church or any other thing that is really important with you."

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Perhaps someone else has more info.

Justin

I understand that the Eastern Church accepts many degrees of glory in heaven but does it divide them up into 3 sections? I recall St. Ephrem in his "Hymns on Paradise" mention how paradise is like a mountain divided up into 3 sections with God's throne at the top of the mountain. He said the top section of the mountain is for the triumphant, the middle section for the righteous, and the bottom section for the penitent. Does the Byzantine tradition carry any particular belief in 3 sections to heaven? Thanks!

Dear Friend,

I think we can all accept that there is a differential in terms of glory in Heaven, but that each one of us will be completely happy in the stage we are assigned to, based on our responsiveness in life to the Grace of God.

As to how many toll-houses, how many stages etc. we'll just have to wait and see .

Alex

Why did he say such a thing to you and who told him so?

Dear Justin,

Could you please be more careful of your language on this forum. There are some here who find your expressions of work to be out of place in this religious setting.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Not a problem.

Justin